Author Archive for paul-secunda
The Secret Life of (Law Professor Proceedings) Editors
posted by Paul Secunda
Woe unto you who is asked by a senior, big-whig colleague, who has the ability to make or break your career, to “assist” them and edit the proceedings of a conference or symposium. Are you doomed to reading practitioner pieces that have never seen the light of the blue book? Must you stare for years upon years on undisturbed piles of copy that have not yet seen the editor’s pen?
No, Bodie and Hirsch, you need not my whiny friends. The answer to such a quandry is organization and yes, many, many doe-eyed research assistants. Here’s my story of how I won the Battle of Who Could Care Less.
Imagine my surprise when I was asked to become a research fellow at a prestigious institution’s labor and employment law institute. Wow, little ‘ol Mississippian me had finally arrived in the hallowed halls of academia. The only catch was that I needed to present a paper at a forthcoming conference at said school. Why, I’d love to.
And one more thing: when the conference is over, you are in charge of editing the twenty-some papers of the participants and producing a 700-page or so book for the institute. Deal? Sure, and can I also be your Yoko Ono after this and follow you around wherever you go?
February 18, 2008 at 11:43 am
Posted in: Law School (Scholarship)
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Law Professor Lateraling 101: Part 10 (“Should I Stay or Should I Go Now?”)
posted by Paul Secunda
More than just the song that I sang (poorly) to my wife at our wedding some ten years ago, the title of this post is the ultimate question you must answer in this lateral market process.
For some, the answer will be easy. The new school represents a jump in prestige, more research funding, better geographic location for family, a spouse has found a new job, or a family member is ill. Or it might be that you just can’t stand the people you work with anymore (and, BTW, they can’t stand you either). I know nothing about this last point.
But for some, the answer is not that easy at all. When I received my first lateral offer last year, it was a school that was basically on the same prestige level, in the same part of the country, and only slighter closer to my wife or my families. Another big issue for us, the presence of a religious community (more fellow Members of the Tribe) was also only slightly better.
In these types of situations, I think it behooves you to have a heart-to-heart with your current dean. Honestly explain the situation. This is an important conversation because not only do you want to see if the outstanding offer permits you to gain some perks through your newly-found leverage, but also it is nice to know whether or not you are truly valued by your institution.
Consider the following responses and tell me which one you would rather hear: “Congratulations. They are sure lucky to have a scholar and teacher on your level. Now, will you close the door. I was just in the middle of a record-breaking minesweeper game.” Or: “Wow [crying hysterically]. That really sucks for me and the school. I will do anything, short of dressing in opposite sex clothing or agreeing to student parking, to get you to stay here. Please. PLEASE!!!”
February 15, 2008 at 11:56 am
Posted in: Law School (Hiring & Laterals)
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Law Professor Lateraling 101: Part 9 (The Negotiation)
posted by Paul Secunda
So you have a lateral offer in hand. Now what?
Assuming you did not accept the offer on the spot (which you shouldn’t), the time has come to negotiate. How hard should you negotiate with possibly your future boss? Hard. Here’s why: this might be the last, best chance you have to establish with some leverage the terms and conditions at your prospective new workplace. As one wise friend in the academy put it to me: “Don’t be afraid to negotiate hard, especially over compensation. I was too soft. Once you are there, you have zero leverage. Get the number you want now, not ten years from now.”
As far as the list of possible negotiation points, it is a long one and whether you need to address each of these issues depends on your current situation. For instance, where you stand with regard to tenure is THE BIG DEAL if no one has voted on your tenure yet. Schools take VASTLY different stances on whether they will credit previous years and how long you need to wait before you are eligible to go up for tenure.
Although my two offers came only one year apart, the first school wished me to wait until my third year on their campus before going up for tenure (which would have meant that I would have not gone up for tenure until my 8th year!), while Marquette was able to make me an offer with tenure. Now granted, I had just been voted tenure by the faculty at Mississippi and so Marquette had many of the materials it needed (including external reviews) for promotion and tenure purposes, but that still doesn’t explain the vastly different offers in this regard I received. To be fair, state schools tend to be more constrained by University policy, so such schools might have less ability to work with you on tenure issues.
But at the very least, my experience suggests it might be easier to lateral once you already have tenure as opposed to trying to move pre-tenure. I know there are many arguments out there that you are more desirable pre-tenure because your upside is greater and there is less commitment necessary by the new school, but consider from a candidate’s point of view. What if you move to a new school without tenure, something goes dreadfully wrong before you go up for tenure, and then you are out in the cold without a job at all at on the tenure-track in the academy?
February 14, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Posted in: Law School (Hiring & Laterals)
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Law Professor Lateraling 101: Part 8 (“You Like Me, You Really Like Me”)
posted by Paul Secunda
Rather than using a saying incorrectly (and having my junior colleague point it out for all to see in the comments (Chris, didn’t you like dinner the other night?)), I decided to steal a line from one of my favorite actresses, Sally Fields, in the spirit of having just shown my Labor Law class “Norma Rae.”
So, congratulations, you have received a lateral offer from a school (BTW, check to make sure it is not from one of those diploma mills). The process is over (or this never-ending series of posts is over), right? Wrong. Not only did I plan 10 parts for this riveting series (come hell or high water), but there are still some remaining issues to tackle including: what to say (and not to say) during that first conversation with the Dean (who will now take over from the appointments committee head), how to negotiate for different terms and conditions, and finally acceptance and other remaining matters like “the move.” (hmmm, maybe I will go with 11 parts).
First, how you react to an offer probably first depends on what type of offer you are made. It seems that a number of years back, it was not unusual for a school to offer a candidate the look-see visit. The idea was that a year visiting the place would be mutually beneficial for both the school and the candidate. If the candidate’s head started turning around and spewing vomit or, on the other hand, the candidate discovered a faculty culture that reminded them of a perpetual AALS conference, it might be best to part on amicable terms after a year while is at least pretending still to be friends.
On the other hand, and this is not the post to go into much detail, there seems to be an increasing trend, as witnessed by the CO/Faculty Lounge lateral moves list, for schools just to offer a permanent position from the get-go. This seems to be more common at the non-elite schools, and less likely at places like Harvard, Yale, Mississippi, or Marquette.
What?
In any event, there are some good posts by Christine Hurt in two parts on visiting here and here (only two parts, Chrstine, what’s with that?). Brian Leiter in another post makes the good point that women and men with children have a much harder time picking up and visiting for a year.
But let’s assume you are made a permanent offer, as I was in two instances in the last two years. The important point here is that there is nothing wrong in telling the Dean that you are thrilled to learn that the school is making you an offer. Again, it is probably not a good idea to exclaim that your next child (of either sex) will be named after said dean. In fact, it is almost never a good idea to accept the offer on the spot.
Here’s why.
February 13, 2008 at 11:39 am
Posted in: Law School (Hiring & Laterals)
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Law Professor Lateraling 101: Part 7 (Rejection Is A Dish Best Served Cold)
posted by Paul Secunda
I know, I know, before I start getting smart ass comments from the likes of Slater and Moss, that it is “revenge” that is the dish in question, but it seems to me that rejection is also quite a frosty platter as well. And believe me, anyone who goes through the lateral market will be rejected at some point.
As my co-blogger, Rick Bales, at Workplace Prof aptly puts it, “Folks entering this market need to know that they’re not going to hit a home run every time, and that what may be a home run in one school’s ballpark may well be a foul ball in another school’s ballpark.”
And I have had my share of foul balls. We’ll talk home runs tomorrow.
In the last couple of posts, I have described the ways in which I heard about the rejection of my candidacy and for my own mental health, I do not review them again hear. Instead, I want to focus on how to turn rejection into a constructive enterprise or better put, how to respond to rejection properly.
February 12, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Posted in: Law School (Hiring & Laterals)
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Law Professor Lateraling 101: Part 6 (The Waiting Game)
posted by Paul Secunda
Maybe it is better stated that this is really “The Crying Game,” with a bizarre, upsetting ending a lot of the time.
You have now made it through the “everything” interview and you are sitting back nervously in your office waiting for the phone to ring, an email to chime in, or, God forbid, a snail mail letter to arrive (never a good thing in these situations, and you have to wonder after having spent all that time invested in you, what type of nimrod would be so tone deaf to send you a form letter saying to never bother them again). I can remember being disappointed during this period when my mother, wife, children, or 85-year-old grandmother was on the other side of the line. And it is hard to have a good response to your 5-year-old son when he asks, “Daddy, why do you sound disappointed that I called?”
In any event, don’t, I repeat DON’T, give into temptation and call or email your contact at the school. Just wait. You are not going to increase your chances of an offer by acting like a persistent pain-in-the-neck. Indeed, if anything, it might give those who are about to vote on you a look into the future about what it might be like to have you on the faculty. The appointments committee or Dean will call you (preferably the Dean) when they need additional information to complete your file (usually references from fellow faculty or student evaluations) or when they have something to say to you of import. It is extremely unlikely that the person on the other end of the phone is going to say: “You know that it is great that you called/wrote because I meant to tell you a week ago that we wanted to make you an offer. I’ve just been busy.”
In any event, the lack of contact may be preferable to some of the the waiting game experiences I have had over the years.
February 11, 2008 at 11:57 am
Posted in: Law School (Hiring & Laterals)
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Law Professor Lateraling 101: Part 5 (The “Everything” Interview)
posted by Paul Secunda
As I have said to others, the “everything” interview is the flyback/job talk interview where you not only need to show up at the school of your dreams and behave reasonably well, but you have to stick the landing.
And by sticking the landing, I primarily mean giving a gang-busters job talk. Yes, you will go on a whirlwind adventure at the lateral school for 24 hours, where you will gorge yourself on food (wow, poor David Case, I thought we treated him well – doesn’t everyone get catfish and BBQ?), speak to everyone including the custodial staff and a few visitors to the law school who are just walking through, and stay at the swankiest hotel that school has to offer.
All fine and good (though not for the waist-line), but really here’s what the food, office interviews, and everything else boils down to: just be a normal, everyday person. Now, I realize this will be hard for some of you (and shoot, who am I kidding, me), but try not to eat with your hands (or off of someone else’s plate (my problem), keep yourself from blurting out your professed love for Barry Manilow or Gary Glitter (I believe he is currently rotting in a Thai jail on child molestation charges), and don’t start laughing maniacally when what the other person just said wasn’t even funny. Just chill.
But do put all of your effort into the job talk that you will give normally during lunch time in front of a good segment of the faculty. Here are some tips.
February 8, 2008 at 11:17 am
Posted in: Law School (Hiring & Laterals)
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Law Professor Lateraling 101 – Part 4 (The “Nothing” Interview)
posted by Paul Secunda
Of course, when I call this part of the lateral process the “nothing interview,” I mean that somewhat figuratively and I am speaking from the candidate’s point of view. But really, I don’t know anyone who has been hired based solely on one of these initial interviews.
The “nothing interview” can literally mean no preliminary interview at all, as when you are invited directly back to the school for your fly-back/job talk interview. This situation is somewhat less frequent, but I have done interviews this way with at least three or four schools. And that “supremely important” interview process will be the subject of my next post.
More common is some sort of preliminary interview. This can take place in person or over the phone. I personally have not done a teleconference interview, but I know others who have, and those people are mostly universal in the discomfort they felt going through this disembodying process. There is nothing quite like having questions thrown at you by four or five people thousands of miles away and having to answer those questions without getting the sense of whether they are laughing silently at your responses or are making outrageous, googly faces to their colleagues. Appointment committee people out there, if you are listening, please do us all a favor and stop the madness. Just say: NO MORE TELECONFERENCE INTERVIEWS!
Preliminary interviews are usually held at the AALS meat market or at the school itself. Again, even though I did fill out the FAR form one year, and was invited back for interviews (I swear), I did not go as a candidate.
February 7, 2008 at 11:54 am
Posted in: Law School (Hiring & Laterals)
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Law Professor Lateraling 101 – Part 3 (Contact)
posted by Paul Secunda
So while my soon-to-be esteemed colleague, Bruce Boyden, blogs away on an important civil procedure topic, I continue my random thoughts on the lateral hiring process.
Having decided that you have what it takes, and somehow finding that elusive lateral market, you have started to receive calls, emails, letters, and even a text message or two. Thank goodness for Blackberries.
Not surprisingly, the first question one is normally asked when contacted is some version of: “Are you really genuinely interested in coming here or are you just pulling our chain?” I’m not sure if the question is completely rhetorical, but, in any event, it is important to state enthusiastically for the record that you would give your left arm and perhaps the naming of your next child to be deemed worthy of the institution calling you (just kidding, kinda of).
Some obvious points and some not so obvious points about first contact. Obvious: don’t say you might be interested depending on how other schools work out (even if this might be true) and you would be happy to consider said institution as a “safety” or “back-up” possibility.
Not so obvious: don’t act desperate.
February 6, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Posted in: Law School (Hiring & Laterals)
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Law Professor Lateraling 101: Part 2 (Where Does One Find the Lateral Market Exactly?)
posted by Paul Secunda
Ok, so yesterday I introduced this law professor lateraling series and started with some thoughts about what it might take to make you lateral material. I might have added BTW that there is much disagreement over whether it is better to go on the lateral market pre-tenure or post-tenure. I think post-tenure for reasons I’ll explain when I get to the offer phase of this series.
The next issue to consider is: where in the heck does one find this mythical lateral market? Especially during my first year on the lateral market, I received conflicting advice about how one puts oneself “out there” to be considered. Should you send letters to school appointment committees you wish to target? Should you fill out a FAR form and relive glorious meat market days? Or should simply wait to be called by those who are interested in having you come to their schools?
Unfortunately, there is no right answer on this one both because lateral candidates have succeeded in following all of the above methods and because there is no obvious meat market the way entry-levels have the AALS meat market.
So here’s my best advice.
February 5, 2008 at 10:40 am
Posted in: Law School (Hiring & Laterals)
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Law Professor Lateraling 101 – Part One (Are You Experienced?)
posted by Paul Secunda
Before I start this series of posts on the process and mechanics of law professor lateraling, let me first give a shout out to Dan, Dave, and the other girls and boys of CO for letting this Workplace Prof talk about things non-labor and employment.
So, I was thinking that I should blog on a topic that I enjoy myself the most reading about when I read various blogs and that I know something about. And although I do enjoy an occasional post about the latest academic article or trend, I always find myself intrigued by the comings and goings of law professors at the entry-level and after.
Indeed, I’m not alone in this guilty pleasure as witnessed by the vast amount of advice given to entry-level professors by law professor luminaries like Brian Leiter, Orin Kerr, Eric Goldman, and Brad Wendel. I do not attempt to duplicate that advice here, but instead want to spend some time on the less-discussed and more mysterious law professor lateral process.
And just to be clear, this post is not about why law professors are lateraling or whether the hiring of laterals is a good way for law schools to rise in the rankings (two topics which have been ably covered by other bloggers here and elsewhere), but instead is about the nitty gritty of what it takes to lateral and how the process and mechanics work. It is amazing the number of times law professors have asked me to share with them my lateraling experiences. So I offer these humble observations as someone who has been on the lateral market for the last three years and who has been turned down by numerous schools (including two after fly backs), turned down a lateral offer, and finally, accepted a lateral offer to Marquette this year. I have also served on my school’s appointments committee which hired a lateral this past year.
Each post in this series will attack a different part of the lateral process and hopefully will act as a clearinghouse for those of you who now or someday may want to know what it takes to lateral.
But first a disclaimer.
February 4, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Posted in: Law School (Hiring & Laterals)
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