Home | About | RSS Feed | Contact and Publicity Guidelines | Comment Policy the Law, the Universe, and Everything 


advertise-here4


Slip Opinions


University governance as a new topic of public discussion.

An unusual profile of Mary Anne Franks (kw)

Aggressive copyright litigation run amok. (fp)

USA Today's Matt Krantz quoting me on Warren Buffett joining Twitter.  (LAC)

Private prisons? Why, sure! What could possibly go wrong? (kw)

TNR profiles Susan Crawford (kw)

Berkshire Hathaway is bigger than Warren Buffett.  Manual of Ideas (LAC).

Guns don't shoot people, kitchen appliances shoot people (kw)

Via Glom, Sat Eve Post review of The Essays of Warren Buffett.

Jack Coffee on Bad Plaintiffs' Counsel in M&A Deals and What Must Be Done to Break Them


Our Podcast

Subscribe to Law Talk


  • Posts by Author

  • Categories

  • Archives


  • Recent Comments


    • John Mihaljevic on Mr. Buffett Joins a Board

    • Kal on Towards Responsible Use of Cognition-Dulling Drugs

    • anon on The Pervasive Role of Priors: Part One

    • Joe on Kentucky: Boy, 5, Kills Sister, 2

    • mls on Copyright’s Constitutional Chameleon

    • Shag from Brookline on Kentucky: Boy, 5, Kills Sister, 2

    • Brett Bellmore on Kentucky: Boy, 5, Kills Sister, 2

    • Daniel Barth-Jones on Re-Identification Risks and Myths, Superusers and Super Stories (Part II: Superusers and Super Stories)

    • Daniel Barth-Jones on Re-Identification Risks and Myths, Superusers and Super Stories (Part I: Risks and Myths)

    • Daniel Barth-Jones on Re-Identification Risks and Myths, Superusers and Super Stories (Part II: Superusers and Super Stories)

    • Daniel Barth-Jones on Re-Identification Risks and Myths, Superusers and Super Stories (Part I: Risks and Myths)

    • Shag from Brookline on Kentucky: Boy, 5, Kills Sister, 2

    • Brett Bellmore on Kentucky: Boy, 5, Kills Sister, 2

    • Peter Strauss on Copyright’s Constitutional Chameleon

    • John Duffy on Copyright’s Constitutional Chameleon
  •  

    Site Meter

    About the Blog

    Concurring Opinions is a multiple authored, general interest legal blog.

    (Image: Wikicommons)

Law Schools and the Curve

posted by Solangel Maldonado

The New York Times has published yet another article accusing law schools of misleading students, this time of failing to inform admitted students with merit scholarships contingent on maintaining a certain grade point average of the possibility of losing their scholarships. I agree with many of the article’s points and the comments in response.  For example, I completely agree that law schools should inform admitted students of the curve (it varies from a 2.67 at some schools to a 3.4 at others)  and provide them with their grading guidelines.  I found the following information on the websites of four law schools:

Law School 1

A+      1%

A         8%

A-       15%

B+      25%

B         20%

B-       12%

C+      7%

C         4%

C-       4%

F        4%

Law School 2

A or higher No more than 10 percent

A- or higher No more than 25 percent

C+ or lower At least 15 percent

C- or lower At least 6 percent

Law School 3

A+      0-2%

A         7-13%

A-       16-24%

B+      22-30%

B        Remainder

B-       4-11%

C         2-5%

D/F    0-5%

Law School 4

At least 20% of grades are A- or above and at least 20% of grades are C+ or below.

***

Given that grading guidelines vary from school to school, knowledge of a law school’s grading system may help merit scholarship recipients assess their likelihood of retaining their scholarships.  However, I disagree with the article’s suggestion that the curve is the main reason why many students lose their scholarships. The curve is generally not the reason why a student who never had a grade lower than a B+ in college may earn a B- or C in law school. In my experience, the curve does not lower a student’s grade but instead bumps the grade up or has no effect at all. In other words, in the absence of a curve, many more law students would earn B minuses and Cs in their first semester (or first year). The reason is that few first semester law students write good exams. This is understandable. Law school exams are generally very different from the exams students took in college or other graduate programs, and it takes a while to figure out how to take a law school exam. A student may have memorized the “black letter” law, but lack the skills to apply it to a complex fact pattern with numerous legal issues.  As the article acknowledges, law students, especially those with merit scholarships, assume that because they performed well as undergraduates, they will automatically perform well in law school—even in their first semester.  However, this is not the case.  Many students do not learn how to apply the law to a new fact pattern or how to advise a client of “all the potential claims and defenses” (a common law school exam question) until after their first round of exams when they meet with their professors individually to review the exam. Maybe law schools need to do a better job of providing students with feedback before they take exams and with formative assessments, as the Carnegie Report on Legal Education recommends, that focus “on supporting students in learning rather than ranking, sorting and filtering them.”


 May 4, 2011 at 9:59 pm   Posted in: Education, Law School   Print This Post Print This Post

Responses (8)

  1. James Darling - May 5, 2011 at 12:19 am

    I believe *ahem* law school 1′s bottom 4% is D or F, not just F. It should also be noted that law school 1′s merit scholarships are based on class rank and not GPA, so the curve’s primary impact on merit scholarships is to normalize grades between sections.

  2. Hillel Levin - May 5, 2011 at 9:00 am

    If it is true that few first semester law school students write good exams then maybe we need to adjust our expectations of first year law school students. That is, if one semester of law school is incapable of enabling students to succeed on their ranking metrics, then the metrics are poor. Shouldn’t we test students on what they are capable of mastering?

  3. Ken Rhodes - May 5, 2011 at 11:48 am

    I disagree with Hillel’s “one way” syllogism. It is equally possible that the teaching in that first semester is letting down the students.

    That would not necessarily mean the teaching of the law is failing. It could (and apparently should) imply that some of the students need a short course in “How to cope with law school.” Such a course, which would last only a few weeks at the beginning of the first semester, could teach not only how to take exams, but also how to prepare, how to take advantage of groups, how to set your priorities, and how to take advantage of the resources of the school. Watching “The Paper Chase” isn’t the best way to learn those things.

  4. Glenn Cohen - May 5, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    I believe Liz Glazer has a paper on this very subject that might of interest/help….http://ssrn.com/abstract=1326463

  5. Glenn Cohen - May 5, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    Whoops wrong post…this goes on Dave Hoffman’s post on names and transgender…that will teach me to browse Concurring opinions with multiple windows open….

  6. Hillel Levin - May 5, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    Ken:

    I don’t think we actually disagree. My point really was that the status quo is troubling if it is true that most students cannot succeed on exams that are given to them in the first semester. I am agnostic on the question of how to improve the situation–whether through changed teaching methods, changed substance, or a sort of complementary course of the sort you suggest.

  7. Adam - May 6, 2011 at 12:12 am

    Maybe we could grade students more closely on skills they’ll need as lawyers. If the purpose was to train them to be court reporters, the current exam model (type at 50 wpm and gogogogogo) would be an apt test of whether they could churn out things as quickly as possible. But to the best of my knowledge, courts don’t lock the attorneys in a room with three hours to write a brief on all of their arguments in the case with just the attorney’s notes to work from. If you want to see students who think like lawyers, start testing them like lawyers.

  8. James Darling - May 6, 2011 at 7:08 pm

    Essay exams can test necessary skills even if you’ll never be asked to write an essay exam in practice. You might say essay exams are a hybrid between the cogent logical reasoning you need for a paper and the time-sensitive issue-spotting you’d want a lawyer to possess for an initial interview or court appearance (and it’s not like a lawyer’s never had to bang out a defensible argument in half a workday).

Leave a Reply

Spam protection by WP Captcha-Free


  • « Previous post
  • Next post »

Authors

Daniel J. Solove
Kaimipono Wenger
Dave Hoffman
Frank Pasquale
Deven Desai
Danielle Citron
Lawrence Cunningham
Sarah Waldeck
Jaya Ramji-Nogales
Solangel Maldonado
Gerard Magliocca

Guests

Kelli A. Alces
Taunya Lovell Banks
Ryan Calo
Claire Hill
Jay Kesten
William McGeveran
Meredith Render
Aaron Saiger
David L. Schwartz
Olivier Sylvain
Charles K. Whitehead
Aaron Zelinsky


















Previous Guests

Michael Abramowicz
Michelle Adams
Robert Ahdieh
Marvin Ammori
Michelle Anderson
Laura Appleman
Derek Bambauer
Taunya Lovell Banks
Ann Bartow
Steven Bellovin
Adam Benforado
Gaia Bernstein
Francesca Bignami
Josh Blackman
Joseph Blocher
Jeremy Blumenthal
Kathleen Boozang
Bruce Boyden
Donald Braman
Khiara Bridges
Al Brophy
Neil H. Buchanan
Bill Burke-White
Scott Burris
Paul Butler
Ryan Calo
Naomi Cahn
Anupam Chander
Miriam Cherry
Jack Chin
Glenn Cohen
Gabriella Coleman
Jennifer Collins
Caroline Mala Corbin
Thomas Crocker
andré douglas pond cummings
Allison Danner
Laura DeNardis
Brannon Denning
Deven Desai
Mike Dimino
Mark Edwards
Maxine Eichner
Jessica Erickson
David Fagundes
Lisa Fairfax
Joshua Fairfield
Christine Haight Farley
Kim Ferzan
Dan Filler
Mary Anne Franks
Susan Freiwald
Michael Froomkin
Amanda Frost
Brian Frye
Timothy Glynn
Rachel Godsil
Eric Goldman
Kyle Graham
David Gray
Craig Green
Tristin Green
Jonathan Hafetz
Vivian E. Hamilton
Meredith Harbach
Michelle Harner
Angela Harris
Jeffrey Harrison
Hosea Harvey
Erica Hashimoto
Jennifer Hendricks
Carissa Hessick
Laura Heymann
Robert Hillman
Gilbert A. Holmes
Nicole Huberfeld
Christine Hurt
Darian Ibrahim
Sherrilyn Ifill
John Ip
Shavar Jeffries
Kevin Johnson
Kristin Johnson
Jeff Jonas
Courtney Joslin
Dan Kahan
Jeffrey Kahn
Brian Kalt
Sam Kamin
Michael Kang
Chimène Keitner
Alicia Kelly
Orin Kerr
Nancy Kim
Heidi Kitrosser
Adam Kolber
Russell Korobkin
Alex Kreit
Anita S. Krishnakumar
Susan Kuo
Greg Lastowka
Sarah Lawsky
Youngjae Lee
Margaret Lewis
Erik Lillquist
Jeff Lipshaw
Jonathan Lipson
Jacqueline Lipton
Matthew Lister
Joseph Liu
Michael Madison
Tayyab Mahmud
Kevin Noble Maillard
Solangel Maldonado
Jason Mazzone
Linda McClain
William McGeveran
Salil Mehra
Carrie Menkel-Meadow
Max Minzner
Viva Moffat
Scott Moss
Eric Muller
Janai Nelson
Jaya Ramji-Nogales
Helen Norton
Elizabeth Nowicki
Paul Ohm
Angela Onwuachi-Willing
David Opderback
David Orentlicher
Michael O'Shea
Kristen Osenga
Mary-Rose Papandrea
Rafael Pardo
Marcy Peek
Eduardo Peñalver
Robert Percival
Michael J. Pitts
Marc Poirier
David Post
Amanda Pustilnik
Shruti Rana
Geoffrey Rapp
William Reynolds
Neil Richards
Lori Ringhand
Alice Ristroph
Marc Roark
Brishen Rogers
Sasha Romanosky
Tuan Samahon
Susan Scafidi
David Schleicher
David Schraub
Paul Secunda
Lea Shaver
Jonathan Siegel
Jessica Silbey
Peter Smith
Judd Sneirson
Adam Steinman
Charles Sullivan
Rick Swedloff
Peter Swire
Olivier Sylvain
Steph Tai
Andrew Taslitz
Robert Tsai
Jenia Turner
Joseph Turow
Steve Vladeck
Ari Waldman
Spencer Weber Waller
Howard Wasserman
Melissa Waters
Elizabeth A. Wilson
Frank Wu
Alfred Yen
Corey Yung
David Zaring
Timothy Zick
Michael Zimmer
Jonathan Zittrain

Ownership

Concurring Opinions is a
general-interest legal blog
operated by Concurring
Opinions LLC, a Pennsylvania
Limited Liability Corporation.

Blogroll

Above the Law
Access to Justice
ACS Blog
Althouse
Balkinization
Becker-Posner Blog
BlackProf
BoingBoing
Chicago Law Faculty Blog
Conglomerate
CrimLaw
Crime & Federalism
CrimProf Blog
Crooked Timber
Derechoalderecho
Discourse.net
Dorf on Law
Election Law
Emergent Chaos
The Faculty Lounge
Feminist Law Profs
43(B)log
Freakonomics Blog
Freedom to Tinker
Google Blogoscoped
How Appealing
Ideoblog
Info/Law
Instapundit.com
Juris Novus
Jurisdynamics
Just Books
Law and Humanities Blog
Law and Letters
Law Librarian Blog
Legal Profession Blog
Legal Theory Blog
Legal Times Blog
Leiter Reports
Brian Leiter's Law School Reports
Lessig Blog
Madisonian Theory
Media Law Blog
Mirror of Justice
The Moderate Voice
National Security Advisors
Opinio Juris
Point of Law
PrawfsBlawg
Privacy and Security Training
ProfessorBainbridge.com
Property Prof Blog
Red Tape Chronicles
The Right Coast
Schneier on Security
SCOTUSBlog
Security Dilemmas
Sentencing Law and Policy
Simple Justice
Sivacracy.net
The Situationist
Susan Crawford
TalkLeft
Talking Points Memo
TaxProf Blog
TeachPrivacy Blog
Tech & Marketing Law
Truth on the Market
Volokh Conspiracy
WorkPlace Prof Blog
WSJ Law Blog
Wonkette
The Yin Blog


© Concurring Opinions

Powered by WordPress