Home | About | RSS Feed | Contact and Publicity Guidelines | Comment Policy the Law, the Universe, and Everything 

advertise-here4


Slip Opinions


Groundhog Day. (fp)

Banned in Tucson. (kw)

The Best and Worst of 2011 in Race and Law (kw)

Tortured to death for trespassing. (fp)

Drones of contention. (fp)

DOJ still coddling banks. (fp)

Creative destruction? Thank banks. (fp)

Blog about a new book, on how to talk to little girls--stressing smarts not cutes.   LAC

Macey on the heroic Rakoff. (fp)

Captured NY Fed. (fp)


solicitors

Our Podcast

Subscribe to Law Talk

law-rev-contents2.jpg


  • Posts by Author

  • Categories

  • Archives


  • Recent Comments


    • Alice on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • Rachel Karash on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • MBL on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • MBL on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • feathered_head on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • Concernicus on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • Ian on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • Peterk on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • Robert on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • Three Oranges on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • Paul Robichaux on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • JR on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • Jan on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • Mark on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • Shag from Brookline on Omelets and Eggs
  •  

    Site Meter

    About the Blog

    Concurring Opinions is a multiple authored, general interest legal blog.

    (Image: Wikicommons)

CCR Symposium: Two Stories About Law’s Expressive Value

posted by David Fagundes

For the most part, Danielle Citron’s work on cyber harassment has me convinced. Both of her essential points—that online harassment of women is a serious problem, and that it can and should be countered using extant categories of civil rights (and other bodies of) law—seem exactly right. Because I basically agree with Citron’s core thesis, I am going use my posts in this symposium to focus on several ancillary points that are raised by this important work.

This post examines Citron’s invocation of law’s expressive dimension. In a point introduced in Cyber Civil Rights and amplified in Law’s Expressive Value in Combating Cyber Gender Harassment, Citron argues that one of the values of situating cyber gender harassment within a civil rights agenda is that it will efface the perception that the harm inflicted by online harassment is trivial.

This optimistic vision of law’s power to shape social norms possesses intuitive appeal, but it tells only half the story about law’s expressive value. Below the fold, I discuss in more detail an alternative account of how law interacts with social norms that complicates (though does not necessarily contradict) Citron’s thesis.


Citron’s argument depends on an optimistic story about the expressive value of law. The argument runs like this: when the state marshals legal resources to punish conduct, that sends a message that the conduct is serious and wrong. As Citron points out, there are lots of instances in which this optimistic story about law’s expressive value explains the emergence of social concern about a previously underappreciated harm. One familiar example is sexual harassment law, which created a consciousness about a serious workplace harm that had been previously dismissed as harmless flirting or a male office entitlement.

But this optimistic story is not the only story about the expressive value of law. Bringing law’s force to bear on otherwise tolerated conduct may not generate social opprobrium about the regulated conduct, but may instead generate disdain for the law itself. One salient example of the pessimistic story of law’s expressive value took place (and is ongoing) in cyberspace. It’s the familiar story of online filesharing, and the attempts of law and industry to convince the public that unauthorized reproduction of copyrighted works online is wrongful (not just illegal, which is an easier point about which there is consensus). Industry has won the majority of the legal battles it has joined since the filesharing wars began, but the result has not been a social consensus in the wrongfulness of online filesharing that the optimistic story of law’s expressive value would predict. Just the contrary. These efforts often generated disdain for content industries that pursued aggressive enforcement agendas, and created sympathy for the users who engaged in the illegal conduct.

Is there any reason to think that the optimistic or pessimistic story of law’s expressive value would prevail in the context of cyber gender harassment? It’s hard to say. On one hand, the filesharing wars suggest that traditional legal frameworks map poorly onto internet norms. If this is the case, then the belief (however wrong) that cyber harassment is trivial may be unusually sticky, and enforcing extant legal sanctions against online harassment would only cause the law to be perceived as trivial as well. On the other hand, online norms may tolerate unauthorized filesharing because it seems like a violation of a possibly outdated commercial regulation (malum prohibitum) while cyber sex harassment inflicts the kind of harm that any decent person should recognize as socially unacceptable (malum in se).

I hope the latter, optimistic story about the expressive value of law is the correct one with respect to cyber harassment, and that Citron’s thesis turns out to be right. I don’t know enough about this topic to make a confident prediction either way, so I seek only to advance the much more modest point that there are two stories about law’s expressive value. Sometimes aggressive enforcement convinces us that the regulated conduct is wrong; sometimes aggressive enforcement convinces us that the law is overly broad and the state overly harsh. And I think Citron’s claims about law’s expressive value in deterring cyber sex harassment would be even more convincing if they reflected this duality and provided an account of why the optimistic rather than the pessimistic version of the account should prevail.


 April 14, 2009 at 2:02 pm   Posted in: Cyber Civil Rights   Print This Post Print This Post

Responses (3)

  1. Jennifer Hendricks - April 14, 2009 at 4:04 pm

    Another reason to think the optimistic story might prevail: In the filesharing context, an externla norm about ownership of intellectual property conflicted with an online culture of openness. My general impression is that the people who think cyber harassment is trivial are more likely to be people who don’t “live” online. The more the internet, and internet-based interactions, are a part of your life, the more seriously you’re likely to take online conduct, so there isn’t such a clash between an offline norm and an indepenent web culture.

  2. A.W. - April 14, 2009 at 5:00 pm

    I am just glad we are finally having a symposium on the music of Creedence Clearwater Revival.

    As mentioned in Footnote number 2 in Fogerty v. Fantasy Records (1994), “Creedence Clearwater Revival (CCR), recently inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, has been recognized as one of the greatest American rock and roll groups of all time. With Fogerty as its leader, CCR developed a distinctive style of music, dubbed ‘swamp rock’ by the media due to its southern country and blues feel.” So, as a matter of law, CCR is one of the greatest bands of all time and if you deny it, the ghost of Rehnquist will rise up and haunt you or something.

    Sorry, couldn’t resist.

  3. Dave - April 14, 2009 at 11:58 pm

    Jennifer: yes, if you’re right that the people who engage in online sex harassment are not also the sorts who haunt cyberspace on a regular basis and have strong opinions about its norms, then certainly they’d have internalized cyberspace’s distinctive norms less fully, and would be less likely to insist on the persistence of those norms even in the face of legal sanctions.

    I don’t know who the people are who engage in this sort of conduct (I hope!) so I can’t really pose a guess as to who they are and what their beliefs about online norms may be. There is some evidence that people who “live” online overlap to some extent with people who think cyber harassment is trivial. I was surprised to read in one of Citron’s articles that one of the strongest defenders of online harassers (or critics of those who suggested that such harassment was problematic) was the founder of Daily Kos (I would have supposed he’d be more sympathetic). It’s only one data point, but if a web celeb like Kos thinks cyber harassment is trivial, there are likely others who “live” in cyberspace and share this view.

Leave a Reply

Spam protection by WP Captcha-Free


  • « Previous post
  • Next post »

Authors

Daniel J. Solove
Kaimipono Wenger
Dave Hoffman
Frank Pasquale
Deven Desai
Danielle Citron
Lawrence Cunningham
Sarah Waldeck
Jaya Ramji-Nogales
Solangel Maldonado
Gerard Magliocca

Guests

Derek Bambauer
Gabriella Coleman
andré douglas pond cummings
David Gray
Brishen Rogers
Joseph Turow
Elizabeth A. Wilson













Previous Guests

Michael Abramowicz
Michelle Adams
Robert Ahdieh
Marvin Ammori
Michelle Anderson
Laura Appleman
Taunya Lovell Banks
Ann Bartow
Steven Bellovin
Adam Benforado
Gaia Bernstein
Francesca Bignami
Josh Blackman
Joseph Blocher
Jeremy Blumenthal
Kathleen Boozang
Bruce Boyden
Donald Braman
Al Brophy
Neil H. Buchanan
Bill Burke-White
Scott Burris
Paul Butler
Ryan Calo
Naomi Cahn
Anupam Chander
Miriam Cherry
Jack Chin
Glenn Cohen
Jennifer Collins
Caroline Mala Corbin
Thomas Crocker
Allison Danner
Brannon Denning
Deven Desai
Mike Dimino
Mark Edwards
Maxine Eichner
Jessica Erickson
David Fagundes
Lisa Fairfax
Joshua Fairfield
Christine Haight Farley
Kim Ferzan
Dan Filler
Mary Anne Franks
Michael Froomkin
Amanda Frost
Brian Frye
Timothy Glynn
Rachel Godsil
Eric Goldman
Kyle Graham
David Gray
Craig Green
Tristin Green
Jonathan Hafetz
Meredith Harbach
Michelle Harner
Jeffrey Harrison
Hosea Harvey
Erica Hashimoto
Jennifer Hendricks
Carissa Hessick
Laura Heymann
Robert Hillman
Gilbert A. Holmes
Nicole Huberfeld
Christine Hurt
Darian Ibrahim
Sherrilyn Ifill
John Ip
Shavar Jeffries
Kevin Johnson
Kristin Johnson
Jeff Jonas
Courtney Joslin
Dan Kahan
Jeffrey Kahn
Brian Kalt
Sam Kamin
Michael Kang
Chimène Keitner
Alicia Kelly
Orin Kerr
Nancy Kim
Heidi Kitrosser
Adam Kolber
Russell Korobkin
Alex Kreit
Anita S. Krishnakumar
Susan Kuo
Greg Lastowka
Sarah Lawsky
Youngjae Lee
Margaret Lewis
Erik Lillquist
Jeff Lipshaw
Jonathan Lipson
Jacqueline Lipton
Matthew Lister
Joseph Liu
Michael Madison
Kevin Noble Maillard
Solangel Maldonado
Jason Mazzone
Linda McClain
William McGeveran
Salil Mehra
Carrie Menkel-Meadow
Max Minzner
Viva Moffat
Scott Moss
Eric Muller
Jaya Ramji-Nogales
Helen Norton
Elizabeth Nowicki
Paul Ohm
Angela Onwuachi-Willing
Michael O'Shea
David Opderback
Kristen Osenga
Rafael Pardo
Marcy Peek
Eduardo Peñalver
Robert Percival
Michael J. Pitts
Marc Poirier
David Post
Amanda Pustilnik
Shruti Rana
Geoffrey Rapp
Neil Richards
Lori Ringhand
Alice Ristroph
Marc Roark
Sasha Romanosky
Tuan Samahon
Susan Scafidi
David Schraub
Paul Secunda
Jonathan Siegel
Jessica Silbey
Peter Smith
Judd Sneirson
Adam Steinman
Charles Sullivan
Rick Swedloff
Olivier Sylvain
Steph Tai
Andrew Taslitz
Robert Tsai
Jenia Turner
Steve Vladeck
Ari Waldman
Spencer Weber Waller
Howard Wasserman
Melissa Waters
Frank Wu
Alfred Yen
Corey Yung
David Zaring
Timothy Zick
Michael Zimmer
Jonathan Zittrain

Ownership

Concurring Opinions is a
general-interest legal blog
operated by Concurring
Opinions LLC, a Pennsylvania
Limited Liability Corporation.

Blogroll

Above the Law
Access to Justice
ACS Blog
Althouse
Balkinization
Becker-Posner Blog
BlackProf
BoingBoing
Chicago Law Faculty Blog
Conglomerate
CrimLaw
Crime & Federalism
CrimProf Blog
Crooked Timber
Derechoalderecho
Discourse.net
Dorf on Law
Election Law
Emergent Chaos
The Faculty Lounge
Feminist Law Profs
43(B)log
Freakonomics Blog
Freedom to Tinker
Google Blogoscoped
How Appealing
Ideoblog
Info/Law
Instapundit.com
Juris Novus
Jurisdynamics
Just Books
Law and Humanities Blog
Law and Letters
Law Librarian Blog
Legal Profession Blog
Legal Theory Blog
Legal Times Blog
Leiter Reports
Brian Leiter's Law School Reports
Lessig Blog
Madisonian Theory
Media Law Blog
Mirror of Justice
The Moderate Voice
National Security Advisors
Opinio Juris
Point of Law
PrawfsBlawg
ProfessorBainbridge.com
Property Prof Blog
Red Tape Chronicles
The Right Coast
Schneier on Security
SCOTUSBlog
Security Dilemmas
Sentencing Law and Policy
Simple Justice
Sivacracy.net
The Situationist
Susan Crawford
TalkLeft
Talking Points Memo
TaxProf Blog
TeachPrivacy Blog
Tech & Marketing Law
Truth on the Market
Volokh Conspiracy
WorkPlace Prof Blog
WSJ Law Blog
Wonkette
The Yin Blog


© Concurring Opinions

Powered by WordPress