Comments on: Women, Men, and Pay: No More Negotiating for Initial Salaries? http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2009/01/women_men_and_p.html The Law, the Universe, and Everything Fri, 19 Mar 2010 03:43:17 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Danielle Citron http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2009/01/women_men_and_p.html/comment-page-1#comment-45209 Danielle Citron Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:15:43 +0000 http://www.solove.org/archives/2009/01/women-men-and-pay-no-more-negotiating-for-initial-salaries.html#comment-45209 Really interesting post. Another possible way to combat the disparity would be greater transparency of salaries. If employers agreed to post the salaries of positions, say in a range, then individual female employees may feel more justifying in asking for equal pay. Really interesting post. Another possible way to combat the disparity would be greater transparency of salaries. If employers agreed to post the salaries of positions, say in a range, then individual female employees may feel more justifying in asking for equal pay.

]]> By: Nick http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2009/01/women_men_and_p.html/comment-page-1#comment-45208 Nick Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:54:50 +0000 http://www.solove.org/archives/2009/01/women-men-and-pay-no-more-negotiating-for-initial-salaries.html#comment-45208 A different take on Ledbetter from Professor Richard Epstein's Forbes column http://www.forbes.com/opinions/2009/01/12/ledbetter-congress-regulation-oped-cx_re_0113epstein.html A different take on Ledbetter from Professor Richard Epstein’s Forbes column

http://www.forbes.com/opinions/2009/01/12/ledbetter-congress-regulation-oped-cx_re_0113epstein.html

]]> By: Nick http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2009/01/women_men_and_p.html/comment-page-1#comment-45207 Nick Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:53:59 +0000 http://www.solove.org/archives/2009/01/women-men-and-pay-no-more-negotiating-for-initial-salaries.html#comment-45207 A different take on Ledbetter from Professor Richard Epstein's Forbes column http://www.forbes.com/opinions/2009/01/12/ledbetter-congress-regulation-oped-cx_re_0113epstein.html A different take on Ledbetter from Professor Richard Epstein’s Forbes column

http://www.forbes.com/opinions/2009/01/12/ledbetter-congress-regulation-oped-cx_re_0113epstein.html

]]> By: JP http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2009/01/women_men_and_p.html/comment-page-1#comment-45206 JP Tue, 13 Jan 2009 01:01:40 +0000 http://www.solove.org/archives/2009/01/women-men-and-pay-no-more-negotiating-for-initial-salaries.html#comment-45206 "Why not urge employers to move away from negotiation of initial salaries as a way of reducing the disparity in pay between men and women?" The Equal Pay Act already does this to a very significant degree. It is odd that because Lilly Ledbetter's trial attorneys forgot about her EPA claim, legislators and law professors have forgotten about the EPA altogether. “Why not urge employers to move away from negotiation of initial salaries as a way of reducing the disparity in pay between men and women?”

The Equal Pay Act already does this to a very significant degree.

It is odd that because Lilly Ledbetter’s trial attorneys forgot about her EPA claim, legislators and law professors have forgotten about the EPA altogether.

]]> By: TJ http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2009/01/women_men_and_p.html/comment-page-1#comment-45205 TJ Tue, 13 Jan 2009 00:02:54 +0000 http://www.solove.org/archives/2009/01/women-men-and-pay-no-more-negotiating-for-initial-salaries.html#comment-45205 Well, it is kind of hard to envision the non-negotiation system you propose while keeping the market functioning. We typically have price-taking with relatively fungible goods and lots of buyers and sellers (commodities, retail goods); and we typically have negotiation when the market is for a unique good with few buyers and sellers (houses). Now, some jobs are relatively fungible, where the workers are just cogs and you could have employers set the initial price with no counter-offers (e.g. first year big firm associates). But not all jobs are like that, and it seems problematic to disadvantage the best workers by taking away their ability to negotiate a higher salary. Well, it is kind of hard to envision the non-negotiation system you propose while keeping the market functioning. We typically have price-taking with relatively fungible goods and lots of buyers and sellers (commodities, retail goods); and we typically have negotiation when the market is for a unique good with few buyers and sellers (houses). Now, some jobs are relatively fungible, where the workers are just cogs and you could have employers set the initial price with no counter-offers (e.g. first year big firm associates). But not all jobs are like that, and it seems problematic to disadvantage the best workers by taking away their ability to negotiate a higher salary.

]]> By: dobe gulia http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2009/01/women_men_and_p.html/comment-page-1#comment-45204 dobe gulia Mon, 12 Jan 2009 22:17:27 +0000 http://www.solove.org/archives/2009/01/women-men-and-pay-no-more-negotiating-for-initial-salaries.html#comment-45204 Do you seriously not understand that employers compete for employees just like employees compete for jobs? And that to lure a desirable job candidate, employers routinely offer better terms than a candidate would have gotten elsewhere? Have you honestly not noticed that employees come in a great variety of skills, abilities, experiences, educational backgrounds, capacities to generate business, willingness to work on undesirable schedules and tolerate undesirable assignments, etc etc etc, all of which gets incorporated into their salaries? This goes even for low-level employees like secretaries, paralegals, nannies, seamstresses, and research assistants, some of whom are simply dramatically better than others, which an experienced hiring manager can tell from a combination of a resume, references, and an interview. Equal pay in such circumstances means undercompensation of the best and overcompensation of the worst -- not an attractive proposition. Do you seriously not understand that employers compete for employees just like employees compete for jobs? And that to lure a desirable job candidate, employers routinely offer better terms than a candidate would have gotten elsewhere? Have you honestly not noticed that employees come in a great variety of skills, abilities, experiences, educational backgrounds, capacities to generate business, willingness to work on undesirable schedules and tolerate undesirable assignments, etc etc etc, all of which gets incorporated into their salaries? This goes even for low-level employees like secretaries, paralegals, nannies, seamstresses, and research assistants, some of whom are simply dramatically better than others, which an experienced hiring manager can tell from a combination of a resume, references, and an interview. Equal pay in such circumstances means undercompensation of the best and overcompensation of the worst — not an attractive proposition.

]]> By: Maryland Conservatarian http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2009/01/women_men_and_p.html/comment-page-1#comment-45203 Maryland Conservatarian Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:37:17 +0000 http://www.solove.org/archives/2009/01/women-men-and-pay-no-more-negotiating-for-initial-salaries.html#comment-45203 Hillary Clinton is going to be paid less than most of her male counterparts on the cabinet...if only she had been forceful in her negotiations. Hillary Clinton is going to be paid less than most of her male counterparts on the cabinet…if only she had been forceful in her negotiations.

]]> By: Not a constitutional scholar http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2009/01/women_men_and_p.html/comment-page-1#comment-45202 Not a constitutional scholar Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:18:10 +0000 http://www.solove.org/archives/2009/01/women-men-and-pay-no-more-negotiating-for-initial-salaries.html#comment-45202 Wouldn't government-funded negotiation skills training that excludes male participants violate the Equal Protection Clause? Wouldn’t government-funded negotiation skills training that excludes male participants violate the Equal Protection Clause?

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