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	<title>Comments on: The Picture and the Paint</title>
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	<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2009/01/the_picture_and.html</link>
	<description>The Law, the Universe, and Everything</description>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2009/01/the_picture_and.html/comment-page-1#comment-45082</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 05:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2009/01/the-picture-and-the-paint.html#comment-45082</guid>
		<description>AJ, thanks very much for the curator comnparison.  That brings to mind lots of great critical work on the dealer-critic-artist triangle, especially claims that one entity or another was mainly acting from commercial interests.

The question of the &quot;smartness&quot; of Google is a tough one.  I just wish there were a way to better differentiate between its use as a tool to help one find things, and its power as a curator/mapper to order the world.  I think that for too many people, the paradigm example of a search is looking for something they already know about.  Just because a search engine accurately &quot;maps&quot; or leads you to that does not guarantee that it escapes bias elsewhere.

The painter/paint metaphor also can&#039;t hope to capture the myriad ways that Google orders information.  It&#039;s acting as a credit reporter, a background checker, a spam filter, a social network, a phone book, a map service, a scholarly citation service--I could go on and on.  To the  extent that reliable competitors exist in each of these areas, its power is not a great concern.  But if it comes to gradually insinuate itself into the operations of most such competitors, it raises grave concerns.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AJ, thanks very much for the curator comnparison.  That brings to mind lots of great critical work on the dealer-critic-artist triangle, especially claims that one entity or another was mainly acting from commercial interests.</p>
<p>The question of the &#8220;smartness&#8221; of Google is a tough one.  I just wish there were a way to better differentiate between its use as a tool to help one find things, and its power as a curator/mapper to order the world.  I think that for too many people, the paradigm example of a search is looking for something they already know about.  Just because a search engine accurately &#8220;maps&#8221; or leads you to that does not guarantee that it escapes bias elsewhere.</p>
<p>The painter/paint metaphor also can&#8217;t hope to capture the myriad ways that Google orders information.  It&#8217;s acting as a credit reporter, a background checker, a spam filter, a social network, a phone book, a map service, a scholarly citation service&#8211;I could go on and on.  To the  extent that reliable competitors exist in each of these areas, its power is not a great concern.  But if it comes to gradually insinuate itself into the operations of most such competitors, it raises grave concerns.</p>
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		<title>By: A.J. Sutter</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2009/01/the_picture_and.html/comment-page-1#comment-45081</link>
		<dc:creator>A.J. Sutter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 04:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2009/01/the-picture-and-the-paint.html#comment-45081</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t read the complete Lessig passage in context, but as quoted here the painter-and-paint metpahor seems inappropriate at a couple of levels.

First, in its relation to other peoples&#039; content, Google&#039;s role is more like a collector or curator of other people&#039;s paintings. Each of the search results returned by Google is itself a painting, in terms of being content (often protected, occasionally public domain). Paint per se, on the other hand, is not content.

In the second paragraph, the emphasis is on Google&#039;s amassing a database of its users&#039; interests. If the paint metaphor is apt here at all, it should apply to the user search requests (and perhaps click-throughs), not to the content per se that users are seeking.

The confusion between content and user searches seems also to underlie the parasite metaphor and the meaning of &quot;Google&#039;s value&quot;. Value to whom?

Value to the user? Maybe I do benefit at times from Google&#039;s smartness dervived from other peoples&#039; searches (as opposed to those smart human coders Google used to brag about in its early days). But at other times it surely doesn&#039;t benefit me: it&#039;s often led to distractions from what I&#039;m really seeking. To say nothing of the fact that search results are distorted by advertising (though perhaps this just means Google also gets &quot;smarter&quot; when paid). So I count the benefits to me of this third-party-derived intelligence a wash at best.

Value to Google? This is more plausible, since Google&#039;s business is advertising and selling user data. But in this case, the parasite argument goes more to Google&#039;s appropriation of its users&#039; search information (and privacy), rather than of the content.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t read the complete Lessig passage in context, but as quoted here the painter-and-paint metpahor seems inappropriate at a couple of levels.</p>
<p>First, in its relation to other peoples&#8217; content, Google&#8217;s role is more like a collector or curator of other people&#8217;s paintings. Each of the search results returned by Google is itself a painting, in terms of being content (often protected, occasionally public domain). Paint per se, on the other hand, is not content.</p>
<p>In the second paragraph, the emphasis is on Google&#8217;s amassing a database of its users&#8217; interests. If the paint metaphor is apt here at all, it should apply to the user search requests (and perhaps click-throughs), not to the content per se that users are seeking.</p>
<p>The confusion between content and user searches seems also to underlie the parasite metaphor and the meaning of &#8220;Google&#8217;s value&#8221;. Value to whom?</p>
<p>Value to the user? Maybe I do benefit at times from Google&#8217;s smartness dervived from other peoples&#8217; searches (as opposed to those smart human coders Google used to brag about in its early days). But at other times it surely doesn&#8217;t benefit me: it&#8217;s often led to distractions from what I&#8217;m really seeking. To say nothing of the fact that search results are distorted by advertising (though perhaps this just means Google also gets &#8220;smarter&#8221; when paid). So I count the benefits to me of this third-party-derived intelligence a wash at best.</p>
<p>Value to Google? This is more plausible, since Google&#8217;s business is advertising and selling user data. But in this case, the parasite argument goes more to Google&#8217;s appropriation of its users&#8217; search information (and privacy), rather than of the content.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Yuille</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2009/01/the_picture_and.html/comment-page-1#comment-45080</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Yuille</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2009/01/the-picture-and-the-paint.html#comment-45080</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure if you&#039;ve seen this, but Cory Doctorow has a nice piece Called &#039;what if google were evil&#039; at http://tinyurl.com/yudbmh

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure if you&#8217;ve seen this, but Cory Doctorow has a nice piece Called &#8216;what if google were evil&#8217; at <a href="http://tinyurl.com/yudbmh" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/yudbmh</a></p>
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