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	<title>Comments on: Ugly political rhetoric v. Unlawful political rhetoric</title>
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	<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/10/ugly_political.html</link>
	<description>The Law, the Universe, and Everything</description>
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		<title>By: Jacqueline</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/10/ugly_political.html/comment-page-1#comment-46809</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacqueline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 22:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/10/ugly-political-rhetoric-v-unlawful-political-rhetoric.html#comment-46809</guid>
		<description>It seems to me the argument here is not about the quality of what the McCain campaign is doing, but a more specific question about the 1st amendment and the model penal code.  If this stuff incites an attack, and if, god forbid, someone dies as a result of it, what is the culpability of the speaker? Would it be a criminal act, but for being protected by the 1st amendment?  Can anyone imagine an incident that would give rise to criminal liability at a political rally?   For example, if a black cameraman from the press at one of these rallies was not just yelled at and called ugly racial slurs, as has already occurred, but was actually dragged from the premises and seriously harmed, would Palin bear responsibility?

Personally, from the youtube videos and press reports I have seen from these rallies, I do think the Republicans have been playing with a heady and potent drug.  They appear to be directing tremendous fear and fury towards an identified person and making it seem heroic and patriotic to stop him. The comment that upset me the most was from Governor Palin.  She said: &quot;I am just so fearful that this is not a man who sees America the way you and I see America.&quot;  What I heard in that comment was her appeal for help, for protection from this scary thing.  From what I have read, that really got the crowd into a frothy state.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me the argument here is not about the quality of what the McCain campaign is doing, but a more specific question about the 1st amendment and the model penal code.  If this stuff incites an attack, and if, god forbid, someone dies as a result of it, what is the culpability of the speaker? Would it be a criminal act, but for being protected by the 1st amendment?  Can anyone imagine an incident that would give rise to criminal liability at a political rally?   For example, if a black cameraman from the press at one of these rallies was not just yelled at and called ugly racial slurs, as has already occurred, but was actually dragged from the premises and seriously harmed, would Palin bear responsibility?</p>
<p>Personally, from the youtube videos and press reports I have seen from these rallies, I do think the Republicans have been playing with a heady and potent drug.  They appear to be directing tremendous fear and fury towards an identified person and making it seem heroic and patriotic to stop him. The comment that upset me the most was from Governor Palin.  She said: &#8220;I am just so fearful that this is not a man who sees America the way you and I see America.&#8221;  What I heard in that comment was her appeal for help, for protection from this scary thing.  From what I have read, that really got the crowd into a frothy state.</p>
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		<title>By: wm. tyroler</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/10/ugly_political.html/comment-page-1#comment-46808</link>
		<dc:creator>wm. tyroler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 00:22:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/10/ugly-political-rhetoric-v-unlawful-political-rhetoric.html#comment-46808</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But I cannot buy the notion being floated that anything unlawful is happening.&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s right. Not remotely close. Period.

Why the fainting spells, then, about McCain/Palin bringing up Obama&#039;s associations? (&lt;i&gt;the increasingly angry, ugly, and personal tone of their campaign rhetoric, which has played up the Obama-as-terrorist-Muslim-traitor-secret-communist, and which has prompted the over-the-top rage and hatred&lt;/i&gt;). Far as I know, McC-P never used that rhetoric. The campaign&#039;s claim, to be sure, is that Obama&#039;s close links to some very questionable characters (Ayers, Wright, Rezko) shed light on his judgment in establishng these links: it&#039;s very arguable that Ayers was a terrorist, Wright a bigot, and Rezko a criminal. Why is it &quot;angry,&quot; etc. to point that out?

More precisely: why &lt;i&gt;now&lt;/i&gt; the concern with rageful speech, and more precisely still, why float the idea of criminalizing it? Nearly 8 years of &quot;Bushitler&quot;; Bush the war criminal; Bush lied, thousands (millions?) died; General Betrayus; etc -- now there&#039;s suddenly a concern about (asserted) inflammatory rhetoric? I can&#039;t wait to see what ideas &lt;a href=&quot;http://townhall.com/columnists/MichaelBarone/2008/10/11/the_coming_obama_thugocracy&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the Obama Administration has in mind to keep us all safe from airing his background&lt;/a&gt;.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But I cannot buy the notion being floated that anything unlawful is happening.</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s right. Not remotely close. Period.</p>
<p>Why the fainting spells, then, about McCain/Palin bringing up Obama&#8217;s associations? (<i>the increasingly angry, ugly, and personal tone of their campaign rhetoric, which has played up the Obama-as-terrorist-Muslim-traitor-secret-communist, and which has prompted the over-the-top rage and hatred</i>). Far as I know, McC-P never used that rhetoric. The campaign&#8217;s claim, to be sure, is that Obama&#8217;s close links to some very questionable characters (Ayers, Wright, Rezko) shed light on his judgment in establishng these links: it&#8217;s very arguable that Ayers was a terrorist, Wright a bigot, and Rezko a criminal. Why is it &#8220;angry,&#8221; etc. to point that out?</p>
<p>More precisely: why <i>now</i> the concern with rageful speech, and more precisely still, why float the idea of criminalizing it? Nearly 8 years of &#8220;Bushitler&#8221;; Bush the war criminal; Bush lied, thousands (millions?) died; General Betrayus; etc &#8212; now there&#8217;s suddenly a concern about (asserted) inflammatory rhetoric? I can&#8217;t wait to see what ideas <a href="http://townhall.com/columnists/MichaelBarone/2008/10/11/the_coming_obama_thugocracy" rel="nofollow">the Obama Administration has in mind to keep us all safe from airing his background</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/10/ugly_political.html/comment-page-1#comment-46807</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 23:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/10/ugly-political-rhetoric-v-unlawful-political-rhetoric.html#comment-46807</guid>
		<description>Maybe you&#039;re right on the law.  But a lot of stuff out there is false . . . so maybe we should focus on getting better defamation laws.  look at this stuff sent in an email to me (and most of my friends are Democrats--imagine if i were getting stuff all from rightwingers:

start:

Please America open your eyes to the lies and deception being propagated and the truth totally disregarded by the main stream!  If you have read this before that is OK too as we need to get this message out to all and remind everyone our security, freedoms and liberties are up for grabs.  Our enemies have said over and over again we can come to power and destroy America by infiltrating the country and the political power.

remember the college roommates of Obama&#039;s that where

born in Pakistan ? They are in charge of all those &#039;small&#039; Internet

campaign contribution for Obama. Where is that money coming from?

The poor and middle class in this country? Or could it be from the

Middle East ?

&#039;Beware of the enemy from within&#039;!!!

end.

------------------------------------------

bottom line--that is at the core of REpublican rhetoric now.  and if you just shrug and ignore it, we&#039;re on the way to Weimar.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe you&#8217;re right on the law.  But a lot of stuff out there is false . . . so maybe we should focus on getting better defamation laws.  look at this stuff sent in an email to me (and most of my friends are Democrats&#8211;imagine if i were getting stuff all from rightwingers:</p>
<p>start:</p>
<p>Please America open your eyes to the lies and deception being propagated and the truth totally disregarded by the main stream!  If you have read this before that is OK too as we need to get this message out to all and remind everyone our security, freedoms and liberties are up for grabs.  Our enemies have said over and over again we can come to power and destroy America by infiltrating the country and the political power.</p>
<p>remember the college roommates of Obama&#8217;s that where</p>
<p>born in Pakistan ? They are in charge of all those &#8216;small&#8217; Internet</p>
<p>campaign contribution for Obama. Where is that money coming from?</p>
<p>The poor and middle class in this country? Or could it be from the</p>
<p>Middle East ?</p>
<p>&#8216;Beware of the enemy from within&#8217;!!!</p>
<p>end.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>bottom line&#8211;that is at the core of REpublican rhetoric now.  and if you just shrug and ignore it, we&#8217;re on the way to Weimar.</p>
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		<title>By: Burr Deming</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/10/ugly_political.html/comment-page-1#comment-46806</link>
		<dc:creator>Burr Deming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 20:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/10/ugly-political-rhetoric-v-unlawful-political-rhetoric.html#comment-46806</guid>
		<description>Before we make a choice we may regret for the next four years, the accusations against Barack Obama should be carefully considered, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.FairAndUnbalanced.com?http://www.testimoanials.com/blog/blog1.php/2008/10/10/the-difference-between-jefferson-davis-a&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;as they are here&lt;/a&gt;.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Before we make a choice we may regret for the next four years, the accusations against Barack Obama should be carefully considered, <a href="http://www.FairAndUnbalanced.com?http://www.testimoanials.com/blog/blog1.php/2008/10/10/the-difference-between-jefferson-davis-a" rel="nofollow">as they are here</a>.</p>
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