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	<title>Comments on: Can Financial Innovation Save us From Financial Innovation?</title>
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	<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/09/can_financial_i_1.html</link>
	<description>The Law, the Universe, and Everything</description>
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		<title>By: waltinseattle</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/09/can_financial_i_1.html/comment-page-1#comment-68873</link>
		<dc:creator>waltinseattle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Mar 2010 00:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/09/can-financial-innovation-save-us-from-financial-innovation.html#comment-68873</guid>
		<description>Shiller &quot;refused to excoriate asset securitization.&quot;  I frankly think that&#039;s head in the sand ignorance of the realities behind the theory.  Generally, I wince when I hear &quot;all other things being equal.&quot;  As the theory behind securitization assumes (most erroniously , I think has been proven) that a large random set of securities (mortgages) guarantees against &quot;systemic&quot; catastrophies ruining the aggrgate product value (of the bundled mortgages). I can, with cause, say that they are using 19th century math in a 21st century context.  It more than verges on hubris to pretend, as they do, that safety has been &quot;secured&quot;  by the processes used.

Since an aspect of the meltdown was that the firms were relying on carry trade to such a degree, I find it funny to worry about the long marginalized &quot;little guy&quot; who has money in the sausage maker.  Funny to wory at the back end, and not at the front end.  Funny to worry after the margins and exposures put them at risk in a game they should not have been funding.  Let the carry trade player cover his own chip buy-in.  Anything else is, frankly, another form of theft!

I hope this is not somewhat off topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shiller &#8220;refused to excoriate asset securitization.&#8221;  I frankly think that&#8217;s head in the sand ignorance of the realities behind the theory.  Generally, I wince when I hear &#8220;all other things being equal.&#8221;  As the theory behind securitization assumes (most erroniously , I think has been proven) that a large random set of securities (mortgages) guarantees against &#8220;systemic&#8221; catastrophies ruining the aggrgate product value (of the bundled mortgages). I can, with cause, say that they are using 19th century math in a 21st century context.  It more than verges on hubris to pretend, as they do, that safety has been &#8220;secured&#8221;  by the processes used.</p>
<p>Since an aspect of the meltdown was that the firms were relying on carry trade to such a degree, I find it funny to worry about the long marginalized &#8220;little guy&#8221; who has money in the sausage maker.  Funny to wory at the back end, and not at the front end.  Funny to worry after the margins and exposures put them at risk in a game they should not have been funding.  Let the carry trade player cover his own chip buy-in.  Anything else is, frankly, another form of theft!</p>
<p>I hope this is not somewhat off topic.</p>
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		<title>By: Is There a Market for &#8220;Conscious Capitalists&#8221;? - Freakonomics Blog - NYTimes.com</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/09/can_financial_i_1.html/comment-page-1#comment-63178</link>
		<dc:creator>Is There a Market for &#8220;Conscious Capitalists&#8221;? - Freakonomics Blog - NYTimes.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 18:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/09/can-financial-innovation-save-us-from-financial-innovation.html#comment-63178</guid>
		<description>[...] to privatizing rather than nationalizing, I’d like to see legalized prediction markets, so that more information on price trends is available to more people early on, thus reducing the scale and cost of the speculative [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to privatizing rather than nationalizing, I’d like to see legalized prediction markets, so that more information on price trends is available to more people early on, thus reducing the scale and cost of the speculative [...]</p>
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		<title>By: A.J. Sutter</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/09/can_financial_i_1.html/comment-page-1#comment-47117</link>
		<dc:creator>A.J. Sutter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/09/can-financial-innovation-save-us-from-financial-innovation.html#comment-47117</guid>
		<description>On p. 151 of Shiller&#039;s new book, &quot;The Subprime Solution&quot; (Princeton UP, August 2008), he quotes with approval Stewart Mayhew to this effect: &quot;&#039;The empirical evidence suggests that the introduction of derivatives does not destabilize the underlying market -- either there is no effect or there is a decline in volatility -- and that the introduction of derivatives tends to improve the liquidity and informativeness of markets.&#039;&quot; The book doesn&#039;t mention anything about credit default swaps.

According to Shiller, the sole cause of the subprime crisis was &quot;the social contagion of boom thinking&quot; (@41); lenders, the investors in the loans they sold off, and rating agencies also all believed there would be no bursting of the bubble, and Greenspan &amp; other regulators didn&#039;t &quot;believe that there could ever be a housing crisis of the proprotions we are seeing today&quot; (@50-51). Loose monetary policy was a &quot;product&quot; of the bubble, and not an exogenous cause (@ 48-49). The source (or at least, &quot;disporportionate&quot; source) of this contagion was subprime borrowers who &quot;were consumed by the mere thought of somehow gaining a foothold in the housing market&quot; (@50). I suppose they are also to blame for CDSs.

Low-cost, government-subsidized financial advice to low-income people is part of Shiller&#039;s cure. Had people received &quot;one-on-one, Suze Orman-style&quot; advice from &quot;trusted advisers[,] [t]he crisis might never have occurred&quot; (@126). Surely &quot;most&quot; financial advisers &quot;must have at least had some sense that the housing boom might not continue&quot; (@127) -- notwithstanding that even ratings agencies and Fed officials either didn&#039;t believe this or didn&#039;t recognize its implications.

His book also includes a big defense of &quot;bailouts&quot; -- but for &quot;preventing distress among people of modest means,&quot; i.e. borrowers (@111). Yet in a 09/20 interview with Forbes, he said of the current bailouts, &quot;[I]t sounds like they&#039;re kind of doing what I proposed in my chapter [in The Subprime Solution] on bailouts.&quot; See http://www.forbes.com/2008/09/20/shiller-buble-economy-biz-wall-cx_jz_0920shillerqa . Kind of, but not exactly -- they&#039;re bailing out different folks.

Yes, the guy predicted the bursting of two bubbles, but sorry if I&#039;m not buying his solutions this time.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On p. 151 of Shiller&#8217;s new book, &#8220;The Subprime Solution&#8221; (Princeton UP, August 2008), he quotes with approval Stewart Mayhew to this effect: &#8220;&#8216;The empirical evidence suggests that the introduction of derivatives does not destabilize the underlying market &#8212; either there is no effect or there is a decline in volatility &#8212; and that the introduction of derivatives tends to improve the liquidity and informativeness of markets.&#8217;&#8221; The book doesn&#8217;t mention anything about credit default swaps.</p>
<p>According to Shiller, the sole cause of the subprime crisis was &#8220;the social contagion of boom thinking&#8221; (@41); lenders, the investors in the loans they sold off, and rating agencies also all believed there would be no bursting of the bubble, and Greenspan &#038; other regulators didn&#8217;t &#8220;believe that there could ever be a housing crisis of the proprotions we are seeing today&#8221; (@50-51). Loose monetary policy was a &#8220;product&#8221; of the bubble, and not an exogenous cause (@ 48-49). The source (or at least, &#8220;disporportionate&#8221; source) of this contagion was subprime borrowers who &#8220;were consumed by the mere thought of somehow gaining a foothold in the housing market&#8221; (@50). I suppose they are also to blame for CDSs.</p>
<p>Low-cost, government-subsidized financial advice to low-income people is part of Shiller&#8217;s cure. Had people received &#8220;one-on-one, Suze Orman-style&#8221; advice from &#8220;trusted advisers[,] [t]he crisis might never have occurred&#8221; (@126). Surely &#8220;most&#8221; financial advisers &#8220;must have at least had some sense that the housing boom might not continue&#8221; (@127) &#8212; notwithstanding that even ratings agencies and Fed officials either didn&#8217;t believe this or didn&#8217;t recognize its implications.</p>
<p>His book also includes a big defense of &#8220;bailouts&#8221; &#8212; but for &#8220;preventing distress among people of modest means,&#8221; i.e. borrowers (@111). Yet in a 09/20 interview with Forbes, he said of the current bailouts, &#8220;[I]t sounds like they&#8217;re kind of doing what I proposed in my chapter [in The Subprime Solution] on bailouts.&#8221; See <a href="http://www.forbes.com/2008/09/20/shiller-buble-economy-biz-wall-cx_jz_0920shillerqa" rel="nofollow">http://www.forbes.com/2008/09/20/shiller-buble-economy-biz-wall-cx_jz_0920shillerqa</a> . Kind of, but not exactly &#8212; they&#8217;re bailing out different folks.</p>
<p>Yes, the guy predicted the bursting of two bubbles, but sorry if I&#8217;m not buying his solutions this time.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Garfunkel</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/09/can_financial_i_1.html/comment-page-1#comment-47116</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Garfunkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 07:18:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/09/can-financial-innovation-save-us-from-financial-innovation.html#comment-47116</guid>
		<description>Nate-- I see that there is no &#039;c&#039; in Shiller. I have a pet google I&#039;m trying to train to spell. Google can spot the spelling error, but it indexes &quot;continuous-workout mortgages&quot; without the hyphen breaking up work-out (in case folks are looking for more info-- a search on that phrase leads to a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/business/21view.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Times article&lt;/a&gt; from this weekend.; another link is to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/09/total_denial.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Frank&#039;s post&lt;/a&gt; from last week).

I haven&#039;t yet found any article critically analyzing the CWM. Surely Shiller has an answer for this-- suppose that CWM had existed in 2000 as a substitute for the low-money-down loans. Incomes &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/21/business/21tax.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;stayed flat&lt;/a&gt; for 2000-05, but housing went up 50%. How would that have worked favorable for borrowers? (I suppose it would have chilled the market somwhat... but so would responsible lending, no?)

FTR, Krugman has cited PIMCO&#039;s Paul McCulley as one of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pimco.com/LeftNav/Featured+Market+Commentary/FF/2002/FF_05_2002.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;earliest to predict&lt;/a&gt; the housing bubble in 2001, figuring that the Fed would want to substitute the housing bubble for the stock bubble.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nate&#8211; I see that there is no &#8216;c&#8217; in Shiller. I have a pet google I&#8217;m trying to train to spell. Google can spot the spelling error, but it indexes &#8220;continuous-workout mortgages&#8221; without the hyphen breaking up work-out (in case folks are looking for more info&#8211; a search on that phrase leads to a <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/business/21view.html" rel="nofollow">Times article</a> from this weekend.; another link is to <a href="http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/09/total_denial.html" rel="nofollow">Frank&#8217;s post</a> from last week).</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t yet found any article critically analyzing the CWM. Surely Shiller has an answer for this&#8211; suppose that CWM had existed in 2000 as a substitute for the low-money-down loans. Incomes <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/21/business/21tax.html" rel="nofollow">stayed flat</a> for 2000-05, but housing went up 50%. How would that have worked favorable for borrowers? (I suppose it would have chilled the market somwhat&#8230; but so would responsible lending, no?)</p>
<p>FTR, Krugman has cited PIMCO&#8217;s Paul McCulley as one of the <a href="http://www.pimco.com/LeftNav/Featured+Market+Commentary/FF/2002/FF_05_2002.htm" rel="nofollow">earliest to predict</a> the housing bubble in 2001, figuring that the Fed would want to substitute the housing bubble for the stock bubble.</p>
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