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	<title>Comments on: A New Spin on the Right to Lie</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/09/a_different_spi.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/09/a_different_spi.html</link>
	<description>The Law, the Universe, and Everything</description>
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		<title>By: Maryland Conservatarian</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/09/a_different_spi.html/comment-page-1#comment-47251</link>
		<dc:creator>Maryland Conservatarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/09/a-new-spin-on-the-right-to-lie.html#comment-47251</guid>
		<description>Justinian Lane writes: &quot;I just love the hostility the right seems to have for facts and fact checkers, as well as their disdain for the New York Times.&quot;

We&#039;re hostile to Facts AND we disdain the NY Times?!?

...wow, that pretty much covers the whole spectrum - from fact to lie, doesn&#039;t it?

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Justinian Lane writes: &#8220;I just love the hostility the right seems to have for facts and fact checkers, as well as their disdain for the New York Times.&#8221;</p>
<p>We&#8217;re hostile to Facts AND we disdain the NY Times?!?</p>
<p>&#8230;wow, that pretty much covers the whole spectrum &#8211; from fact to lie, doesn&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>By: A.W.</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/09/a_different_spi.html/comment-page-1#comment-47250</link>
		<dc:creator>A.W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/09/a-new-spin-on-the-right-to-lie.html#comment-47250</guid>
		<description>McCain&#039;s ad doesn&#039;t say it mandates it, it says at most it allows for it.

And what do you know?  It does.

And, SHOULDN&#039;T we ban &quot;comprehensive&quot; sex ed for kindergarteners.  Well, Obama&#039;s own spokesperson didn&#039;t seem terribly keen on the idea:

&quot;The intent of the language and inclusion of kindergarten was simply to make it possible to offer age-appropriate, not comprehensive, information for kindergartners so that those young children could be given basic information so that they would be aware of inappropriate behavior by adults&quot;

Except of course, the statute specifically authorizes what he claims the law is opposed to.

And as noted here (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NzI3ZDUzOTE0ZThlMTU3MTY0MDI4ZTY0MTZhY2I2MGY=), while most of the bill&#039;s sponsors were not returning calls on the subject, one admitted that it was not inappropriate touching at all, but rather just what it says &quot;comprehensive sex ed.&quot;

And let me say, i am a very pro-birth control, pro-sex ed kind of guy.  But even people like me go, &quot;Kindergarten?  Really?&quot;

There is a reason why when they finally did pass a law essentially identical to it, that they changed it to 6th grade.  Because sex ed for kindergardeners is just plain messed up.  And that is why the left is trying to hard to deny it: because they know it is too messed up to defend.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>McCain&#8217;s ad doesn&#8217;t say it mandates it, it says at most it allows for it.</p>
<p>And what do you know?  It does.</p>
<p>And, SHOULDN&#8217;T we ban &#8220;comprehensive&#8221; sex ed for kindergarteners.  Well, Obama&#8217;s own spokesperson didn&#8217;t seem terribly keen on the idea:</p>
<p>&#8220;The intent of the language and inclusion of kindergarten was simply to make it possible to offer age-appropriate, not comprehensive, information for kindergartners so that those young children could be given basic information so that they would be aware of inappropriate behavior by adults&#8221;</p>
<p>Except of course, the statute specifically authorizes what he claims the law is opposed to.</p>
<p>And as noted here (<a href="http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NzI3ZDUzOTE0ZThlMTU3MTY0MDI4ZTY0MTZhY2I2MGY=)" rel="nofollow">http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NzI3ZDUzOTE0ZThlMTU3MTY0MDI4ZTY0MTZhY2I2MGY=)</a>, while most of the bill&#8217;s sponsors were not returning calls on the subject, one admitted that it was not inappropriate touching at all, but rather just what it says &#8220;comprehensive sex ed.&#8221;</p>
<p>And let me say, i am a very pro-birth control, pro-sex ed kind of guy.  But even people like me go, &#8220;Kindergarten?  Really?&#8221;</p>
<p>There is a reason why when they finally did pass a law essentially identical to it, that they changed it to 6th grade.  Because sex ed for kindergardeners is just plain messed up.  And that is why the left is trying to hard to deny it: because they know it is too messed up to defend.</p>
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		<title>By: PV</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/09/a_different_spi.html/comment-page-1#comment-47249</link>
		<dc:creator>PV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:40:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/09/a-new-spin-on-the-right-to-lie.html#comment-47249</guid>
		<description>The same is clearly happening with McCain’s ads. [quote] For instance, for the claim that Obama voted to teach kindergarteners “comprehensive sex ed” it is quickly becoming an article of faith that this is a lie. But is it, now. Look at what the proposed law said:

&gt; Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV AIDS.[/quote]

Take notice: the law states that &quot;each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall include...&quot;

This doesn&#039;t MANDATE sex education for kindergarten; which is what McCain&#039;s statement is proposing. It simply specifies what lessons a sex ed program in the range of grades K-12 should consist of, IF in place at the school in question.  So yes, clearly, it is not supporting comprehensive sex ed in K-12.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The same is clearly happening with McCain’s ads. [quote] For instance, for the claim that Obama voted to teach kindergarteners “comprehensive sex ed” it is quickly becoming an article of faith that this is a lie. But is it, now. Look at what the proposed law said:</p>
<p>> Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV AIDS.[/quote]</p>
<p>Take notice: the law states that &#8220;each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall include&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>This doesn&#8217;t MANDATE sex education for kindergarten; which is what McCain&#8217;s statement is proposing. It simply specifies what lessons a sex ed program in the range of grades K-12 should consist of, IF in place at the school in question.  So yes, clearly, it is not supporting comprehensive sex ed in K-12.</p>
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		<title>By: A.W.</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/09/a_different_spi.html/comment-page-1#comment-47248</link>
		<dc:creator>A.W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/09/a-new-spin-on-the-right-to-lie.html#comment-47248</guid>
		<description>Hmm, yeah, okay. So first, you guys cite a “study” that says that McCain lies more often. No chance that this study is biased, is there?

Nah, of course not.

Then you go on to claim that Swift Boat veterans were liars.

Based on what proof? In fact, I recall that in their first salvo they exposed an outright lie told by Kerry. Kerry claimed that on Christmas of 1968, he was in Cambodia and heard “President Nixon” on the radio saying there were no troops in Cambodia. Only there’s a small problem with that story; Nixon wasn’t president at the time.

There were a few other cases of he-said, he said disputes, that don’t really allow us to pretend to know what the truth was. And then when it came to Kerry’s shameful testimony before congress, well that is undisputed truth. So all told, it seems like the Swifties came out ahead, and despite how things are seen in Democratic think tanks, they were not discredited.

The same is clearly happening with McCain’s ads. For instance, for the claim that Obama voted to teach kindergarteners “comprehensive sex ed” it is quickly becoming an article of faith that this is a lie. But is it, now. Look at what the proposed law said:

&gt; Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV AIDS.

Gosh, clearly it was not supporting comprehensive sex ed.  My bad.

The cognitive dissonance on this blog whenever it touches on politics is pretty amazing.  Its not exactly tedious but annoying to watch how the left fails to ever turn the mirror on themselves.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, yeah, okay. So first, you guys cite a “study” that says that McCain lies more often. No chance that this study is biased, is there?</p>
<p>Nah, of course not.</p>
<p>Then you go on to claim that Swift Boat veterans were liars.</p>
<p>Based on what proof? In fact, I recall that in their first salvo they exposed an outright lie told by Kerry. Kerry claimed that on Christmas of 1968, he was in Cambodia and heard “President Nixon” on the radio saying there were no troops in Cambodia. Only there’s a small problem with that story; Nixon wasn’t president at the time.</p>
<p>There were a few other cases of he-said, he said disputes, that don’t really allow us to pretend to know what the truth was. And then when it came to Kerry’s shameful testimony before congress, well that is undisputed truth. So all told, it seems like the Swifties came out ahead, and despite how things are seen in Democratic think tanks, they were not discredited.</p>
<p>The same is clearly happening with McCain’s ads. For instance, for the claim that Obama voted to teach kindergarteners “comprehensive sex ed” it is quickly becoming an article of faith that this is a lie. But is it, now. Look at what the proposed law said:</p>
<p>> Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV AIDS.</p>
<p>Gosh, clearly it was not supporting comprehensive sex ed.  My bad.</p>
<p>The cognitive dissonance on this blog whenever it touches on politics is pretty amazing.  Its not exactly tedious but annoying to watch how the left fails to ever turn the mirror on themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: JH</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/09/a_different_spi.html/comment-page-1#comment-47247</link>
		<dc:creator>JH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/09/a-new-spin-on-the-right-to-lie.html#comment-47247</guid>
		<description>Facts have a well-known liberal bias.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Facts have a well-known liberal bias.</p>
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		<title>By: JH</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/09/a_different_spi.html/comment-page-1#comment-47246</link>
		<dc:creator>JH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/09/a-new-spin-on-the-right-to-lie.html#comment-47246</guid>
		<description>Facts have a well-known liberal bias.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Facts have a well-known liberal bias.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/09/a_different_spi.html/comment-page-1#comment-47245</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/09/a-new-spin-on-the-right-to-lie.html#comment-47245</guid>
		<description>Frank,

Thanks for the interesting, reason-based posts.

Jack

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank,</p>
<p>Thanks for the interesting, reason-based posts.</p>
<p>Jack</p>
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		<title>By: Dan O</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/09/a_different_spi.html/comment-page-1#comment-47244</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan O</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 03:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/09/a-new-spin-on-the-right-to-lie.html#comment-47244</guid>
		<description>RC said, &quot;frank your posts are getting increasingly predictable and tedious. wake me up when you post something that doesn&#039;t toe the liberal lines..&quot;

Ditto

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RC said, &#8220;frank your posts are getting increasingly predictable and tedious. wake me up when you post something that doesn&#8217;t toe the liberal lines..&#8221;</p>
<p>Ditto</p>
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		<title>By: rc</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/09/a_different_spi.html/comment-page-1#comment-47243</link>
		<dc:creator>rc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 02:46:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/09/a-new-spin-on-the-right-to-lie.html#comment-47243</guid>
		<description>frank your posts are getting increasingly predictable and tedious.  wake me up when you post something that doesnt toe the liberal lines

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>frank your posts are getting increasingly predictable and tedious.  wake me up when you post something that doesnt toe the liberal lines</p>
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		<title>By: RCinProv</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/09/a_different_spi.html/comment-page-1#comment-47242</link>
		<dc:creator>RCinProv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 02:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/09/a-new-spin-on-the-right-to-lie.html#comment-47242</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;Lecturing the public on what&#039;s &#039;true&#039; and what&#039;s a &#039;lie&#039; . . . plays into some of the worst stereotypes about liberals--that they are preachy know-it-alls hiding their political motives behind a veneer of objectivity and respectability.&quot; &lt;/i&gt;

Hmmmm. Sounds like what John McCain has been doing ever since picking Sarah Palin.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Lecturing the public on what&#8217;s &#8216;true&#8217; and what&#8217;s a &#8216;lie&#8217; . . . plays into some of the worst stereotypes about liberals&#8211;that they are preachy know-it-alls hiding their political motives behind a veneer of objectivity and respectability.&#8221; </i></p>
<p>Hmmmm. Sounds like what John McCain has been doing ever since picking Sarah Palin.</p>
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		<title>By: Justinian Lane</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/09/a_different_spi.html/comment-page-1#comment-47241</link>
		<dc:creator>Justinian Lane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 02:20:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/09/a-new-spin-on-the-right-to-lie.html#comment-47241</guid>
		<description>I just love the hostility the right seems to have for facts and fact checkers, as well as their disdain for the New York Times.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just love the hostility the right seems to have for facts and fact checkers, as well as their disdain for the New York Times.</p>
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		<title>By: Lori Ringhand</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/09/a_different_spi.html/comment-page-1#comment-47240</link>
		<dc:creator>Lori Ringhand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 01:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/09/a-new-spin-on-the-right-to-lie.html#comment-47240</guid>
		<description>So the system cannot prohibit lies in advance, cannot effectively rebut lies as they occur, and cannot punish lies after the fact. Why would any candidate do anything other than lie?

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So the system cannot prohibit lies in advance, cannot effectively rebut lies as they occur, and cannot punish lies after the fact. Why would any candidate do anything other than lie?</p>
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