Clone Wars: A Dilemma
posted by Erik Lillquist
Soon, the new Star Wars movie, The Clone Wars will be out. (If you want to count down the time, join my children and watch the seconds pass by in breathless anticipation here.) There is little doubt that I will soon find myself in a theater with at least my two oldest children seeing the film.
Here’s the problem: once they have seen The Clone Wars, how do I avoid showing my children Episodes I-III? As a child, I loved the first three movies (Episodes IV-VI). Even now, I still enjoy watching them, and over the last six months, my two oldest children have become huge fans of them as well. But I have strenuously avoided showing them I-III, on the ground that they range from mediocre (at best) to awful. (As an aside, I saw Episode II with Dan, and I think it may have been the worst cinematic experiences of both of our lives.) Unfortunately, my understanding is that The Clone Wars is set between Episodes II & III, so they will have an even better case for their “need” to see the other Episodes. (They already have a good idea of what happens in these films, through books and friends.) And, to be honest, I suspect that they would actually like Episodes I-III, much for the same reasons that they love those Ewoks in Episode VI. George Lucas at least certainly still knows how to please his target demographic.
The question I have been struggling with is whether, after The Clone Wars, I should still refuse to show them Episodes I-III. Remember, my objection is artistic. They already know Anakin turns evil, etc., and frankly the incomprehensibility of the rest of the plot won’t bother them. Plus, while no doubt the violence should bother me, that’s a battle my wife and I lost long ago in this particular case. So should I show them these episodes, or am I right to shield them from what I deem to be a cinematic disaster?
August 5, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Posted in: Culture
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Responses (25)
Daniel J. Solove - August 5, 2008 at 10:54 pm
This has got to be the most difficult moral dilemma ever faced in the history of humankind. I think you’re underestimating the potential damage. What if they actually like the movies? Maybe your kids will grow up to have bad taste. They’ll view Episodes I-III as great cinema, along with the Matrix III and the two sequels to Pirates of the Caribbean! They’ll grow into tasteless fools who watch reality TV shows — maybe they’ll even be contestants. They’ll eat at chain restaurants whenever they travel. They’ll watch the daytime shout-and-fight talk shows. And then all this tastelessness will be passed onto your grandkids, who will be watching shows where they torture little puppy dogs for entertainment. Yes, the entire Lillquist line could devolve into this.
Belle Lettre - August 6, 2008 at 1:29 am
Dan is right. “What if they actually like the movies” is a question that must drive your decision. You know that kids have under-developed palates at this age, and also questionable taste. See, e.g., “Flubber.” They might well think that the movies are visually dazzling, that Jar Jar Binks is oh so funny, and that Hayden Christenson is oh so dreamy. Future evil is hott! The interesting moral complexities about how good derives from and yet is opposed to evil in Episodes IV-VI devolved in the prequels to some sort of Dawson’s Creek Whiny McEmo “but why can’t I be a Jedi Master NOW!” teenage angst.
I worry slightly less than Dan that your kids will grow up to be plebes. Far more likely, they’ll grow up with bad morals. They’ll become all emo like young Darth, think that teenage pregnancies with a dominatrixy-dressed Queen Amidala sounds like a good idea if you can have Luke and Leia and return the Jedi, and no amount of good parenting on your part will help with this.
John Ip - August 6, 2008 at 1:39 am
This is indeed a serious issue. I would note that there is a scene in Episode IV when Obi-Wan explains to Luke that he and Anakin fought in the Clone Wars. Perhaps you can use that as the hook, and avoid the mediocrity of Episodes I-III?
Matt Bodie - August 6, 2008 at 7:01 am
You know, I never saw Episode III, so I still can’t believe that it never actually depicted the Clone Wars. I mean, it’s the one thing that’s mentioned in Star Wars. All that other stupid stuff, and they don’t show the Clone Wars? Lucas botched this all so horribly that it’s just tragic. As a law prof, I should know better, but I am tempted to fight the hypo — why even go to the cartoon?
Anyway, one additional reason not to watch 1-3: the ethnic stereotyping. The accents of those Trade Federation poo-bahs is just shocking, in my opinion.
Michael Risch - August 6, 2008 at 9:10 am
If you think that Episodes I-III are the worst movies your kids are going to see in their lives, then you must not own a TV (or you must keep a tight, tight clamp on it). I say take them and don’t look back.
A.W. - August 6, 2008 at 9:12 am
Btw, spoilers ahead in this response.
This is like the dilemma in whether to buy my young cousin (7 at the time) a Furby for X-mas. My wife was like “she isn’t going to play with it in three months.” And I agreed, but i bought it for her anyway. Why?
Becaust that is how she learns.
Ditto with the star wars movies. First, I will be the heretic and say they were not as awful as generally argued. The real problem is that after all those years NOTHING could have lived up to our expectations. Which is not to say there weren’t stumbles. They are still the lesser of the series. But disasters? Seems to be overstating it.
But regardless of whether they love it or hate it, whatever. The only way to learn is to experience. If you are shielding your children from even mediocre art, how are they going to handle the really tough stuff.
And, bluntly, Star Wars has a different place in our hearts than our kids. I think they can digest a few crappy movies better than we can.
Christine Hurt - August 6, 2008 at 9:55 am
If we tried to shield our kids from movies and TV shows where the plots didn’t hang together and the acting was bad, then most of the channels on television would go bankrupt. As an example, I had to take two little girls to see Space Chimps last weekend.
Chris Bell - August 6, 2008 at 10:17 am
Skip episode 1 and just show them 2 and 3. For God’s sake, don’t let them know there is an Episode 1!
(Don’t worry, your kids won’t like E2. The terribly-acted teenage love-angst scene is too long to hold ANYONE’s attention.)
Paul - August 6, 2008 at 11:07 am
You’ve already let them see Return of the Jedi, so I think artistic purity in that regard has already been lost.
(It took me years to stop loving RotJ, so there’s hope that, even should they like the prequels now, they’ll come around eventually. Although, full disclosure, I rather like RotS.)
Sarah Lawsky - August 6, 2008 at 11:19 am
(1) You have a moral responsibility to let them see Episodes I-III. This is Star Wars. Star Wars transcends artistic concerns!
(2) Christine, I too had to go to Space Chimps last weekend. I made up a special new adjective just to describe it, but I can’t write it down here. Never has 81 minutes seemed so long. (And the kid loved it, of course.)
Joel - August 6, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Skip all the movies, just show them Genndy Tartakovsky’s series and say the movies follows it.
cbh - August 6, 2008 at 1:48 pm
1) I’m curious which other movies you won’t let your kids see for artistic reasons?
2) At least show them the final fight scene in Episode I — Ray Park (aka Darth Maul) does a 360 butterfly!!
cbh - August 6, 2008 at 1:48 pm
1) I’m curious which other movies you won’t let your kids see for artistic reasons.
2) At least show them the final fight scene in Episode I — Ray Park (aka Darth Maul) does a 360 butterfly!!
Bruce Boyden - August 6, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Following up on Christine’s point, this movie — http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0052320/ — scared me silly when I was 7 or so. I don’t think you have to worry that current tastes will predict future results.
Erik Lillquist - August 6, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Thanks for all the interesting comments. I cannot respond to them all, but here are a few thoughts.
Belle I think is right on in identifying one of the two sources of my discomfort in showing Episodes I-III. They are artistically bad and I hope that they won’t seek to immitate either the characters’ life choices or Lucas’s artistic style going forward. Thus, the fact that they see lots of badly acted movies and shows (thankfully, my wife “took one for the team” on Space Chimp last weekend) is not completely responsive. Why have them start imitating Dawson’s Creek type behavior well before they get to that age? (And yes, they watch Hannah Montana, but my wife and I are pretty aggressive about banning other similar shows from them.)
But the second aspect of my discomfort is a bit more particular. Episodes IV-VI are good movies: I agree that RotJ is inferior to the first two, but having rewatched it several times over the past few months now, I still think it is generally superior to the last three, and in any event, it provides the necessary conclusion to the Luke/Anakin storyline. And I agree that I-III are not horrendous in every moment: Carissa is certainly right about the end of I and Paul is right that portions of RotS are better than the Episodes I & II (although I thought the very end of it was almost as bad as the love scenes in II). The problem is that when IV-VI are seen as a triology, they are a great series; when you see I-VI, it becomes something that is only marginally above Space Chimp, and probably below the Lion King and even Cars. So I am worried that they are going to equate “good” with I-III, after correctly equating “good” with IV-VI. In other words, I am undermining the messages I try to give them about good vs. bad entertainment.
Of course, I am taking a risk of ruining the whole message simply by allowing them to see The Clone Wars. I have, though, some odd faith that this movie will be better than I-III (if only because I suspect/hope Lucas’s involvement is minimal). Furthermore, as I suggested in the post, I am already defeated on this front anyway. As Matt ought to know, I have no chance of winning this battle once my kids have become fixated on seeing this movie. In addition, it apparently is going to be a TV series of some sort, so “resistance is futile….”
Justinian Lane - August 6, 2008 at 3:28 pm
I can’t believe no one else has said this: Episode III is an excellent movie. Lucas redeemed himself in my eyes. There are so many satisfying parts of III, not the least of which is seeing some of the obnoxious characters from I get killed. If I were putting a box set together, it would just include Episodes III-VI. Episodes I & II add little of value other than a few decent lightsaber battles.
Bruce Boyden - August 6, 2008 at 5:13 pm
Justinian, YMMV, but I found the transformation from Anakin to Darth Vader one of the least plausible character developments I’ve ever seen.
Belle Lettre - August 6, 2008 at 5:25 pm
I remember being astounded to learn that Darth was Luke’s father when I first watched Episodes IV-VI. “Luke I am your father”–oh my goodness! Good can come from evil! Good can become evil! Good must fight the evil from whence it came! For a child, this is a rather extraordinary revelation, and actually complex moral philosophy.
Then I watched Episodes I-III. I believe I was in my last years of college or law school. All of the important themes–that power corrupts, the zealous pursuit of the good can be its own evil when its merely self-aggrandizement or absolute exercise of power, that “the good” and “the evil” are not easily defined–ah, they are wasted. Kids don’t need to see how easy it is to become a pouty Sith Lord or Darth’s Creek. Bad use of the themes, and bad art.
Did you know that Lucas designed that leather corset costume + beaded choker for then-teenage Natalie Portman? Creepy.
Mike O'Shea - August 6, 2008 at 8:23 pm
It’s gratifying to see the gravity with which Erik has posed this quandary, and with which Dan, Belle, and other commenters have taken it up.
What’s painful about the Star Wars prequels* is not just that they’re lousy popular culture — as Christine suggests, there’s loads of that out there — but that they’re a degradation of something that was precious to a lot of people, especially of a certain generation.
Erik, I’m not a parent. Is it realistic to think you might use the badness as a teaching moment? By comparing Ep 1 with the magisterial awesometude of Empire Strikes Back, you subtly help the kids understand what it means when adults like Lucas cheese out, cash in, dumb down? That’s not an insignificant piece of Bildung.
* FN: Actually, I only saw Phantom Menace. Scarred me into avoiding the other two.
Mike O'Shea - August 6, 2008 at 8:23 pm
It’s gratifying to see the gravity with which Erik has posed this quandary, and with which Dan, Belle, and other commenters have taken it up.
What’s painful about the Star Wars prequels* is not just that they’re lousy popular culture — as Christine suggests, there’s loads of that out there — but that they’re a degradation of something that was precious to a lot of people, especially of a certain generation.
Erik, I’m not a parent. Is it realistic to think you might use the badness as a teaching moment? By comparing Ep 1 with the magisterial awesometude of Empire Strikes Back, you subtly help the kids understand what it means when adults like Lucas cheese out, cash in, dumb down? That’s not an insignificant piece of Bildung.
* FN: Actually, I only saw Phantom Menace. Scarred me into avoiding the other two.
Belle Lettre - August 7, 2008 at 12:02 am
Mike makes an excellent point about using badness as a teaching point. Or rather, “this is bad, but this is _important_. This, I am sure, is why so many film studies classes analyze the films of D.W. Griffiths to make some sort of similar point. “Yes this is a film about white supremacy/anti-Asian yellow peril! But it’s important because it is canonical and look at the cinematography!” I wonder if some sort of corollary point could be made about Episodes I-III.
Meg K. - August 7, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Here’s a question inspired by the teachable-moment angle: do you show your kids the original IV-VI, or are they watching the “special” editions? Because if you’re already showing them Greedo shooting first and they’re missing out on Han’s evolution from badass, then what’s the point in keeping the prequels from them?
(That said, I’m even tempted to see the Clone Wars movie even though I’m still trying to scrub all memories of I-III from my brain. Thanks for reminding me of the leather corset, Belle!)
Katie - August 7, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Are any of your kids pre-teen girls? Because if so, you might consider throwing Star Wars – even the prequels – at them to distract them from the infinitely worse Twilight series that seems to be all the rage among the kids right now. It’s a lesser of two evils situation.
Miriam Cherry - August 8, 2008 at 12:34 am
Clone Wars, Space Chimps… Ai Chihuahua!!
media boy - August 12, 2008 at 5:35 pm
so Lucas finally got to make (or a least approve of) a whole Star Wars movie after his love for CGI… looks fun though
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