Home | About | RSS Feed | Contact and Publicity Guidelines | Comment Policy the Law, the Universe, and Everything 


advertise-here4


Slip Opinions


Cardozo Law School's Susan Crawford battles telecom giants, per NYT here.  (LAC)

University governance as a new topic of public discussion.

An unusual profile of Mary Anne Franks (kw)

Aggressive copyright litigation run amok. (fp)

USA Today's Matt Krantz quoting me on Warren Buffett joining Twitter.  (LAC)

Private prisons? Why, sure! What could possibly go wrong? (kw)

TNR profiles Susan Crawford (kw)

Berkshire Hathaway is bigger than Warren Buffett.  Manual of Ideas (LAC).

Guns don't shoot people, kitchen appliances shoot people (kw)

Via Glom, Sat Eve Post review of The Essays of Warren Buffett.


Our Podcast

Subscribe to Law Talk


  • Posts by Author

  • Categories

  • Archives


  • Recent Comments


    • Lawrence Cunningham on Mr. Buffett Joins a Board

    • Guy Spier on Mr. Buffett Joins a Board

    • John Mihaljevic on Mr. Buffett Joins a Board

    • Kal on Towards Responsible Use of Cognition-Dulling Drugs

    • anon on The Pervasive Role of Priors: Part One

    • Joe on Kentucky: Boy, 5, Kills Sister, 2

    • mls on Copyright’s Constitutional Chameleon

    • Shag from Brookline on Kentucky: Boy, 5, Kills Sister, 2

    • Brett Bellmore on Kentucky: Boy, 5, Kills Sister, 2

    • Daniel Barth-Jones on Re-Identification Risks and Myths, Superusers and Super Stories (Part II: Superusers and Super Stories)

    • Daniel Barth-Jones on Re-Identification Risks and Myths, Superusers and Super Stories (Part I: Risks and Myths)

    • Daniel Barth-Jones on Re-Identification Risks and Myths, Superusers and Super Stories (Part II: Superusers and Super Stories)

    • Daniel Barth-Jones on Re-Identification Risks and Myths, Superusers and Super Stories (Part I: Risks and Myths)

    • Shag from Brookline on Kentucky: Boy, 5, Kills Sister, 2

    • Brett Bellmore on Kentucky: Boy, 5, Kills Sister, 2
  •  

    Site Meter

    About the Blog

    Concurring Opinions is a multiple authored, general interest legal blog.

    (Image: Wikicommons)

Twelve Angry Men

posted by Bruce Boyden

12_angry_men.jpgOver at the Volokh Conspiracy, several of the VC bloggers are making interesting comments on the jury deliberation classic, “Twelve Angry Men.”

I have two comments of my own. First, I’ve only read the play, and never seen the movie, but I can’t say I’m a fan. The play struck me as boring, because it is so obviously morally lopsided in favor of the Fonda character. The conflict between the Fonda character and the Cobb character is about as interesting as watching the Patriots play a high school football team. It reminds me of something Thomas Nagel once said, that the egregious violation of human rights is philosophically uninteresting. The idea being that if your intuitions are not pulled in more than one direction, there’s nothing to discuss. “Twelve Angry Men” gives the viewer nothing to think about, unlike, say, “Paths of Glory” (does military justice require individual culpability?) or “The Caine Mutiny” (were the defendants really innocent, in a moral sense?) or “Breaker Morant” (what’s justifiable conduct in a guerrila war?) or “The Verdict” (does the civil justice system work?).

My second comment is actually a question. Were all-male juries still the norm in 1957, when the film was released? That seems awfully late, given that the right of women to vote was adopted in 1920. When did it become abnormal?


 February 2, 2008 at 4:45 pm   Posted in: Movies & Television   Print This Post Print This Post

Responses (8)

  1. KipEsquire - February 2, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    “We cannot say that it is constitutionally impermissible for a State acting in pursuit of the general welfare, to conclude that a woman should be relieved from the civic duty of jury service unless she herself determines that such service is consistent with her own special responsibilities.”

    –Hoyt v. Florida, 368 U.S. 57, 62 (1961)

    “It is untenable to suggest these days that it would be a special hardship for each and every woman to perform jury service or that society cannot spare any women from their present duties.”

    –Taylor v. Louisiana, 419 U.S. 522 (1975)

    You’ve come a long way, baby…

  2. Patrick S. O'Donnell - February 2, 2008 at 6:26 pm

    This is one of my all-time favorite films. I used to show it in a “critical thinking” course to illustrate a handful of informal fallacies in reasoning. I think it is truly a classic. Had I the time I would list the many virtues of the film, but perhaps others who like it can say something on its behalf.

  3. Patrick S. O'Donnell - February 2, 2008 at 6:26 pm

    This is one of my all-time favorite films. I used to show it in a “critical thinking” course to illustrate a handful of informal fallacies in reasoning. I think it is truly a classic. Had I the time I would list the many virtues of the film, but perhaps others who like it can say something on its behalf.

  4. Matt - February 2, 2008 at 6:58 pm

    I liked _Paths of Glory_ quite a lot but can’t say that I found it full of moral complexity. The only difficult moral question, I thought, was whether Krik Douglas’s character had an obligation to do more to prevent the obviously unjust executions. Is there something you think I’m missing on it? (I must admit it’s been a few years since I’ve seen it so I might not be remembering quite right. It didn’t seem as morally interesting as Breaker Morant to me.)

  5. Bruce Boyden - February 3, 2008 at 2:01 pm

    Kip, thanks for the cites. If you infer that the Supreme Court follows changes in society rather than producing them, it looks like all-male juries ceased becoming normal somewhere between 1961 and 1975.

    Matt, I won’t argue the point too strenuously — I think it’s perfectly plausible to see Paths of Glory as a straightforward tale of a fight against a corrupt system. I also saw questions about whether the soldiers could justifiably be punished at random for a collective failure, which is what made their defense so difficult, but I would agree that’s at most a minor theme. So I have to backtrack a little: a right vs. wrong tale can be entertaining. Why didn’t I find “12 Angry Men” entertaining? I still think it has something to do with its obviousness.

  6. merevaudevillian - February 3, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    Bruce, I think that your review is a bit flippant, if I may say so. The film (though the play as well) is beautiful because of the profound levels of meaning at which we may examine it. It starts with two strata of basic courtroom drama, how a jury deliberates and how Fonda can play the role of “defense attorney” to the opposition. The crime is simple, to the audience and to all but one juror. Perhaps you had the benefit of insight that most of us lack (and, indeed, the ability to notice details on jurors that were never mentioned until individual jurors mentioned them later), but the story unravels in evidence in a powerful way.

    It then moves to individual biases or perspectives shading the evidence. Indeed, it illustrates what, say, the legal realists generally posit: that we bring to the same set of facts a varying degree of perspectives. How each juror views the evidence, and what each remembers portions of the evidence, is profound. We have the expert logician, the simplistic and biased fop, the largely-ignorant surface-reader, and so forth.

    From there, it moves to greater social questions of justice (in this case alone, or retributive for prior wrongs?), of racial animus, of life’s priorities (get to the game or back to the office, or get this case right?), of truth-seeking (does looking too closely obscure it, or clarify it), and so forth. Each dimension is expertly crafted into these 12 personas.

    In short, I think if you’re looking for an “entertaining” work, you could easily settle for Grisham. If you’re looking for a work that goes beyond a bare courtroom plot of good v. evil, Fonda v. Cobb, I think you should take the time to re-examine this work.

    (Incidentally, I classify both 12 Angry Men and Paths of Glory among the greatest of all time. Kudos for bringing this oft-forgotten masterpiece to the discussion.)

  7. Bruce Boyden - February 4, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    merevaudevillian — I’m not sure you mean “flippant,” which according to my dictionary means “lacking proper respect or seriousness.” It’s just a movie. I think you mean that you vehemently disagree with me.

    Anyway, like I said, I’ve never seen the movie, only the play, and that was some time ago. So maybe I should rent it and watch it sometime. I’ll post the results here or wherever I might be blogging at the time.

  8. merevaudevillian - February 5, 2008 at 9:59 am

    Bruce, I used the phrase “a bit flippant” to address your statements, which comprised the bulk of substantive criticism, of “struck me as boring,” “obviously morally lopsided,” “as interesting as watching the Patriots play a high school football team,” “philosophically uninteresting,” “nothing to discuss,” and “nothing to think about.” Such phrases, I believe, tend toward the “lack of proper respect or seriousness.”

Leave a Reply

Spam protection by WP Captcha-Free


  • « Previous post
  • Next post »

Authors

Daniel J. Solove
Kaimipono Wenger
Dave Hoffman
Frank Pasquale
Deven Desai
Danielle Citron
Lawrence Cunningham
Sarah Waldeck
Jaya Ramji-Nogales
Solangel Maldonado
Gerard Magliocca

Guests

Kelli A. Alces
Taunya Lovell Banks
Ryan Calo
Claire Hill
Jay Kesten
William McGeveran
Meredith Render
Aaron Saiger
David L. Schwartz
Olivier Sylvain
Charles K. Whitehead
Aaron Zelinsky


















Previous Guests

Michael Abramowicz
Michelle Adams
Robert Ahdieh
Marvin Ammori
Michelle Anderson
Laura Appleman
Derek Bambauer
Taunya Lovell Banks
Ann Bartow
Steven Bellovin
Adam Benforado
Gaia Bernstein
Francesca Bignami
Josh Blackman
Joseph Blocher
Jeremy Blumenthal
Kathleen Boozang
Bruce Boyden
Donald Braman
Khiara Bridges
Al Brophy
Neil H. Buchanan
Bill Burke-White
Scott Burris
Paul Butler
Ryan Calo
Naomi Cahn
Anupam Chander
Miriam Cherry
Jack Chin
Glenn Cohen
Gabriella Coleman
Jennifer Collins
Caroline Mala Corbin
Thomas Crocker
andré douglas pond cummings
Allison Danner
Laura DeNardis
Brannon Denning
Deven Desai
Mike Dimino
Mark Edwards
Maxine Eichner
Jessica Erickson
David Fagundes
Lisa Fairfax
Joshua Fairfield
Christine Haight Farley
Kim Ferzan
Dan Filler
Mary Anne Franks
Susan Freiwald
Michael Froomkin
Amanda Frost
Brian Frye
Timothy Glynn
Rachel Godsil
Eric Goldman
Kyle Graham
David Gray
Craig Green
Tristin Green
Jonathan Hafetz
Vivian E. Hamilton
Meredith Harbach
Michelle Harner
Angela Harris
Jeffrey Harrison
Hosea Harvey
Erica Hashimoto
Jennifer Hendricks
Carissa Hessick
Laura Heymann
Robert Hillman
Gilbert A. Holmes
Nicole Huberfeld
Christine Hurt
Darian Ibrahim
Sherrilyn Ifill
John Ip
Shavar Jeffries
Kevin Johnson
Kristin Johnson
Jeff Jonas
Courtney Joslin
Dan Kahan
Jeffrey Kahn
Brian Kalt
Sam Kamin
Michael Kang
Chimène Keitner
Alicia Kelly
Orin Kerr
Nancy Kim
Heidi Kitrosser
Adam Kolber
Russell Korobkin
Alex Kreit
Anita S. Krishnakumar
Susan Kuo
Greg Lastowka
Sarah Lawsky
Youngjae Lee
Margaret Lewis
Erik Lillquist
Jeff Lipshaw
Jonathan Lipson
Jacqueline Lipton
Matthew Lister
Joseph Liu
Michael Madison
Tayyab Mahmud
Kevin Noble Maillard
Solangel Maldonado
Jason Mazzone
Linda McClain
William McGeveran
Salil Mehra
Carrie Menkel-Meadow
Max Minzner
Viva Moffat
Scott Moss
Eric Muller
Janai Nelson
Jaya Ramji-Nogales
Helen Norton
Elizabeth Nowicki
Paul Ohm
Angela Onwuachi-Willing
David Opderback
David Orentlicher
Michael O'Shea
Kristen Osenga
Mary-Rose Papandrea
Rafael Pardo
Marcy Peek
Eduardo Peñalver
Robert Percival
Michael J. Pitts
Marc Poirier
David Post
Amanda Pustilnik
Shruti Rana
Geoffrey Rapp
William Reynolds
Neil Richards
Lori Ringhand
Alice Ristroph
Marc Roark
Brishen Rogers
Sasha Romanosky
Tuan Samahon
Susan Scafidi
David Schleicher
David Schraub
Paul Secunda
Lea Shaver
Jonathan Siegel
Jessica Silbey
Peter Smith
Judd Sneirson
Adam Steinman
Charles Sullivan
Rick Swedloff
Peter Swire
Olivier Sylvain
Steph Tai
Andrew Taslitz
Robert Tsai
Jenia Turner
Joseph Turow
Steve Vladeck
Ari Waldman
Spencer Weber Waller
Howard Wasserman
Melissa Waters
Elizabeth A. Wilson
Frank Wu
Alfred Yen
Corey Yung
David Zaring
Timothy Zick
Michael Zimmer
Jonathan Zittrain

Ownership

Concurring Opinions is a
general-interest legal blog
operated by Concurring
Opinions LLC, a Pennsylvania
Limited Liability Corporation.

Blogroll

Above the Law
Access to Justice
ACS Blog
Althouse
Balkinization
Becker-Posner Blog
BlackProf
BoingBoing
Chicago Law Faculty Blog
Conglomerate
CrimLaw
Crime & Federalism
CrimProf Blog
Crooked Timber
Derechoalderecho
Discourse.net
Dorf on Law
Election Law
Emergent Chaos
The Faculty Lounge
Feminist Law Profs
43(B)log
Freakonomics Blog
Freedom to Tinker
Google Blogoscoped
How Appealing
Ideoblog
Info/Law
Instapundit.com
Juris Novus
Jurisdynamics
Just Books
Law and Humanities Blog
Law and Letters
Law Librarian Blog
Legal Profession Blog
Legal Theory Blog
Legal Times Blog
Leiter Reports
Brian Leiter's Law School Reports
Lessig Blog
Madisonian Theory
Media Law Blog
Mirror of Justice
The Moderate Voice
National Security Advisors
Opinio Juris
Point of Law
PrawfsBlawg
Privacy and Security Training
ProfessorBainbridge.com
Property Prof Blog
Red Tape Chronicles
The Right Coast
Schneier on Security
SCOTUSBlog
Security Dilemmas
Sentencing Law and Policy
Simple Justice
Sivacracy.net
The Situationist
Susan Crawford
TalkLeft
Talking Points Memo
TaxProf Blog
TeachPrivacy Blog
Tech & Marketing Law
Truth on the Market
Volokh Conspiracy
WorkPlace Prof Blog
WSJ Law Blog
Wonkette
The Yin Blog


© Concurring Opinions

Powered by WordPress