Comments on: Peace vs. Justice or Peace & Justice: The ICC in Northern Uganda http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/02/peace_vs_justic.html The Law, the Universe, and Everything Tue, 14 Feb 2012 05:18:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Linda Keller http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/02/peace_vs_justic.html/comment-page-1#comment-50380 Linda Keller Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:36:27 +0000 http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/02/peace-vs-justice-or-peace-justice-the-icc-in-northern-uganda.html#comment-50380 A welcome, nuanced assessment of the situation in N. Uganda. In another bit of shameless self-promotion following MK, I'd mention that I explore this issue in my forthcoming piece, Achieving Peace with Justice: The International Criminal Court & Ugandan Alternative Justice Mechanisms. The work in progress is posted at http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1018539. I examine the proposed local justice mechanisms of a truth commission and the Ugandan Acholi mato oput process under the Rome Statute and international criminal justice theory. I think a properly crafted truth commission or robust traditional justice mechanism could provide sufficient accountability while also furthering the goals of the ICC. I look forward to next post on concrete steps toward a settlement. A welcome, nuanced assessment of the situation in N. Uganda. In another bit of shameless self-promotion following MK, I’d mention that I explore this issue in my forthcoming piece, Achieving Peace with Justice: The International Criminal Court & Ugandan Alternative Justice Mechanisms. The work in progress is posted at http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1018539. I examine the proposed local justice mechanisms of a truth commission and the Ugandan Acholi mato oput process under the Rome Statute and international criminal justice theory. I think a properly crafted truth commission or robust traditional justice mechanism could provide sufficient accountability while also furthering the goals of the ICC. I look forward to next post on concrete steps toward a settlement.

]]> By: Katherine http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/02/peace_vs_justic.html/comment-page-1#comment-50379 Katherine Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:20:10 +0000 http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/02/peace-vs-justice-or-peace-justice-the-icc-in-northern-uganda.html#comment-50379 Thanks very much for your rigorous analysis, but I'm not sure you clearly address the main question: What if Kony and the rest of the indictees will not agree to prosecution plus imprisonment as a potential sanction? Assuming or even entertaining the possibility that they or any other rebel negotiator would consent to such an outcome seems unrealistic. And if they don't agree and a final agreement cannot be reached as a result, can it be right that continuation of conflict and regional instability in four countries (DRC, Sudan, Uganda, and CAR) is consistent with the goals and purposes of international law? Without the capacity to execute the warrants (and I mean the capacity to arrest the indictees without causing more civilian atrocities and killing child captives), seems international standards of "justice" are simply too high or self-defeatingly defined at this time. Thanks again. Thanks very much for your rigorous analysis, but I’m not sure you clearly address the main question: What if Kony and the rest of the indictees will not agree to prosecution plus imprisonment as a potential sanction? Assuming or even entertaining the possibility that they or any other rebel negotiator would consent to such an outcome seems unrealistic. And if they don’t agree and a final agreement cannot be reached as a result, can it be right that continuation of conflict and regional instability in four countries (DRC, Sudan, Uganda, and CAR) is consistent with the goals and purposes of international law? Without the capacity to execute the warrants (and I mean the capacity to arrest the indictees without causing more civilian atrocities and killing child captives), seems international standards of “justice” are simply too high or self-defeatingly defined at this time. Thanks again.

]]> By: MK http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/02/peace_vs_justic.html/comment-page-1#comment-50378 MK Tue, 12 Feb 2008 02:42:39 +0000 http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/02/peace-vs-justice-or-peace-justice-the-icc-in-northern-uganda.html#comment-50378 In some shameless self-promotion, I wrote a soon-to-be-published article the legality of domestic amnesty agreements and the ICC, set to be printed in the UC Davis Journal of International Law & Policy, which focuses on the LRA case. A rough version appears here, but look for the actual version this month: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1019670 That out of the way, I think the more interesting question to arise from all of this is, what happens if the LRA are adequately tried but "inadequately" punished? Can the ICC step in then, or would this violate Article 20 of the Rome Statute? But I agree, it should be very interesting to see what happens in the coming year (assuming some resolution emerges from Juba...ever). In some shameless self-promotion, I wrote a soon-to-be-published article the legality of domestic amnesty agreements and the ICC, set to be printed in the UC Davis Journal of International Law & Policy, which focuses on the LRA case.

A rough version appears here, but look for the actual version this month:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1019670

That out of the way, I think the more interesting question to arise from all of this is, what happens if the LRA are adequately tried but “inadequately” punished? Can the ICC step in then, or would this violate Article 20 of the Rome Statute? But I agree, it should be very interesting to see what happens in the coming year (assuming some resolution emerges from Juba…ever).

]]> By: Matt Lister http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/02/peace_vs_justic.html/comment-page-1#comment-50377 Matt Lister Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:49:21 +0000 http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/02/peace-vs-justice-or-peace-justice-the-icc-in-northern-uganda.html#comment-50377 A very interesting and useful post Bill. The last dynamic you mention seems an important one to me- countries might say something like, "negotiate with us and we'll have domestic trials where we'll set the terms and limit the scope. Don't negotiate and you'll be in the doc at the Hague forever." Of course that's unlikely to work with a rebel group that thinks it's likely to win, but seems like a powerful bargaining tool in many other cases, one that wouldn't be possible w/o the ICC. A very interesting and useful post Bill. The last dynamic you mention seems an important one to me- countries might say something like, “negotiate with us and we’ll have domestic trials where we’ll set the terms and limit the scope. Don’t negotiate and you’ll be in the doc at the Hague forever.” Of course that’s unlikely to work with a rebel group that thinks it’s likely to win, but seems like a powerful bargaining tool in many other cases, one that wouldn’t be possible w/o the ICC.

]]> By: Patrick S. O'Donnell http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/02/peace_vs_justic.html/comment-page-1#comment-50376 Patrick S. O'Donnell Mon, 11 Feb 2008 15:23:48 +0000 http://www.solove.org/archives/2008/02/peace-vs-justice-or-peace-justice-the-icc-in-northern-uganda.html#comment-50376 An exemplary analysis. I especially appreciate the manner in which you met some of the common (if not facile) criticisms of the ICC of late, both in general (by implication) and specifically in the Ugandan case. And the notion of indeterminacy with regard to the Court's ultimate impact strikes me as on target, at least more likely than some of the rather confident predictions as to the outcome of the ICC indictments. Of course that "complementary jurisdiction" thing can be tricky, especially in instances where governments are new, fragile, or a bit too authoritarian, but I think domestic criminal proceedings would be the best scenario (and that's the default assumption of the Statute, is it not?) provided of course we can have at least some confidence in their integrity and due process. Again, thanks for a clear and original analysis of the "peace v. justice" argument in Uganda. I very much look forward to the next post on the topic. An exemplary analysis. I especially appreciate the manner in which you met some of the common (if not facile) criticisms of the ICC of late, both in general (by implication) and specifically in the Ugandan case. And the notion of indeterminacy with regard to the Court’s ultimate impact strikes me as on target, at least more likely than some of the rather confident predictions as to the outcome of the ICC indictments. Of course that “complementary jurisdiction” thing can be tricky, especially in instances where governments are new, fragile, or a bit too authoritarian, but I think domestic criminal proceedings would be the best scenario (and that’s the default assumption of the Statute, is it not?) provided of course we can have at least some confidence in their integrity and due process.

Again, thanks for a clear and original analysis of the “peace v. justice” argument in Uganda. I very much look forward to the next post on the topic.

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