Home | About | RSS Feed | Contact and Publicity Guidelines | Comment Policy the Law, the Universe, and Everything 

Search


Concurring Opinions is a
general-interest legal blog
operated by Concurring
Opinions LLC, a Pennsylvania
Limited Liability Corporation.

jr_114_9780195367195_bnr

jr_114_9780195383768_bnr

advertise-here4


FC-CO(SS)

Our Podcast

Subscribe to Law Talk

law-rev-contents2.jpg


  • Posts by Author

  • Categories

  • Archives


  • Recent Comments

    • fau on Public opinion on same-sex marriage

    • Mike Zimmer on From the other side at AALS . . .

    • Mike Zimmer on The Employer’s Strategy in Gross v. FBL Financials

    • Mike Zimmer on Drafting the 28th Amendment

    • M.G.M on Drafting the 28th Amendment

    • A.J. Sutter on Lawyers: Don’t Trade on Inside Information!

    • No Load Funds on Consumer Financial Product Safety?

    • grad student on Princeton and the Behavioral Revolution

    • Anon321 on The Passive Voice in Statutory Interpretation

    • Steven Kaminshine on The Employer’s Strategy in Gross v. FBL Financials

    • Alex Kreit on Politicians: Have you talked to your constituents about drug policy?

    • Alex Kreit on Election Night 2009

    • mikeb302000 on Election Night 2009

    • Neal Goldfarb on The Passive Voice in Statutory Interpretation

    • Orin Kerr on Politicians: Have you talked to your constituents about drug policy?

  •  

    Site Meter

Law Professor Lateraling 101: Part 9 (The Negotiation)

posted by Paul Secunda

Negotiating.jpgSo you have a lateral offer in hand. Now what?

Assuming you did not accept the offer on the spot (which you shouldn’t), the time has come to negotiate. How hard should you negotiate with possibly your future boss? Hard. Here’s why: this might be the last, best chance you have to establish with some leverage the terms and conditions at your prospective new workplace. As one wise friend in the academy put it to me: “Don’t be afraid to negotiate hard, especially over compensation. I was too soft. Once you are there, you have zero leverage. Get the number you want now, not ten years from now.”

As far as the list of possible negotiation points, it is a long one and whether you need to address each of these issues depends on your current situation. For instance, where you stand with regard to tenure is THE BIG DEAL if no one has voted on your tenure yet. Schools take VASTLY different stances on whether they will credit previous years and how long you need to wait before you are eligible to go up for tenure.

Although my two offers came only one year apart, the first school wished me to wait until my third year on their campus before going up for tenure (which would have meant that I would have not gone up for tenure until my 8th year!), while Marquette was able to make me an offer with tenure. Now granted, I had just been voted tenure by the faculty at Mississippi and so Marquette had many of the materials it needed (including external reviews) for promotion and tenure purposes, but that still doesn’t explain the vastly different offers in this regard I received. To be fair, state schools tend to be more constrained by University policy, so such schools might have less ability to work with you on tenure issues.

But at the very least, my experience suggests it might be easier to lateral once you already have tenure as opposed to trying to move pre-tenure. I know there are many arguments out there that you are more desirable pre-tenure because your upside is greater and there is less commitment necessary by the new school, but consider from a candidate’s point of view. What if you move to a new school without tenure, something goes dreadfully wrong before you go up for tenure, and then you are out in the cold without a job at all at on the tenure-track in the academy?


Tenure remains the gold standard in the legal academy, and you should ask yourself whether it might be better to stay at your current school where tenure may be assured vs. venturing out and taking a chance of losing the greatest job in the world (I really do believe that). If you do consider jumping pre-tenure, make sure you ask: will I get full credit for prior years spent on the tenure track; will my existing publications count towards tenure; and is there a possibility of early tenure if merited and if so, what are the conditions for going up early?

So, that’s tenure. Other issues?

The more important ones to discuss include: sabbatical (schools seem rather firm on not giving credit for sabbatical for years spent at another institution but schools are flexible to a larger or smaller degree on this point), moving expenses (if you can, accept nothing less than the school will pay the full move), subsequent trips to look for homes and do spouse interviews (get at least one of these, but two if possible – one house hunt is never enough), course load and courses that you will teach (here, depending on the prestige of the school, 3 or 4 courses may be normal, but if it’s 4, try to negotiate a few 3 year loads so you can do your move and have a smooth transition. Also try to be somewhat flexible on the courses you will teach, but don’t agree to teach a class that will make you miserable. Also try not to agree to too many new preps while you’re making the transition), and research resources (including a travel budget, summer grants, research assistants, book allowance, etc.).

On this last item, the sweetness of an offer can be made especially sweet if summer grants and travel budgets are not only generous, but are guaranteed for a few years after your arrival and one can exceed their budget to attend speaking engagements as necessary. Not only do schools seem to have more flexibility in these areas of compensation, but it does say a lot about a school’s commitment to scholarship and becoming more visible in the larger academy. On other hand, if the school is being stingy on, or completely cutting out, things like conference travel, research grants, and research assistants, my advice is: run and run fast.

On the other hand, bar dues and organizational membership fees (like in Law & Society) may or may not be something you want to waste much time negotiating over. Another thought: if you are relatively senior, you may want to ask for start-up funds to set up a program, institute, new law journal, or research program beyond what is normally given for research funds.

More or less important points you may wish to discuss include: the type of computer you will get and how often it will be replaced (how about a blackberry or other smart phone?), benefits (including 401(k) retirement and health insurance. Here there is probably little you can negotiate as these benefits are usually set campus-wide), will the school help with spousal job assistance (and what type of assistance – merely passing out a resume or pushing hard for the spouse to get a job. Obviously, this can be very important for some couples), and maybe an initial research leave (especially if an early sabbatical is not possible).

Finally, this is probably just personal taste, but things I would negotiate less (if at all) on include: parking space (no need to annoy senior colleagues. Get some exercise!), postcard announcing your arrival (just strikes me as tacky), and tickets to sporting events. On the last one, Marquette basketball is pretty darn good and it probably would have been next to impossible to score seats. On the other hand, if you are lateraling to a school without much of a football program (say Notre Dame or Michigan) or basketball program (say Florida or UCLA), it shouldn’t be a problem. :( )

All in all, there is a lot to talk about with the Dean and it likely will take a number of conversations and emails to sort this all out. So try not to be rushed into a decision or rush the school for that matter. A good dean will understand that an unreasonable exploding offer is not a good idea if one wants to start off with a happy new faculty member come the Fall semester.

With that out of the way, all that’s left now is to decide whether to make the jump or hold pat. But as we will discuss in the next (and last?) post, your current school may have something to say about that.


 February 14, 2008 at 12:53 pm   Posted in: Law School (Hiring & Laterals)   Print This Post Print This Post

Responses (5)

  1. Chris - February 14, 2008 at 1:33 pm

    If you’ll stay, I won’t ever make silly comments on your posts again!

  2. Stephen M (Ethesis) - February 14, 2008 at 6:13 pm

    Negotiation is really an interesting topic, especially blending preserving and creating an environment vs. maintaining and keeping respect.

    Not to mention the tangibles.

  3. Orin Kerr - February 14, 2008 at 7:49 pm

    On the other hand, bar dues and organizational membership fees (like in Law & Society) may or may not be something you want to waste much time negotiating over. . . . .

    More or less important points you may wish to discuss include: the type of computer you will get and how often it will be replaced (how about a blackberry or other smart phone?)

    Interesting. It never occurred to me that a law school might pay a professor’s bar dues, organizational memberships, or for blackberries and the like. I wonder, is that common?

  4. Orin Kerr - February 14, 2008 at 7:51 pm

    Oops — my formatting is messed up. It should be the first two paragraphs in italics (as they are Paul’s), not just the first paragraph.

  5. Travis - April 3, 2009 at 9:12 am

    Where did you get this picture?

    Thanks!

Leave a Reply

*
To prove you're a person (not a spam script), type the security word shown in the picture. Click on the picture to hear an audio file of the word.
Click to hear an audio file of the anti-spam word


  • « Previous post
  • Next post »

Authors

Daniel J. Solove

Website
Understanding Privacy

Kaimipono Wenger

Website
SSRN Page

Dave Hoffman

Website
SSRN Page

Nate Oman

Website
SSRN Page

Frank Pasquale

Website
SSRN Page

Deven Desai

Website
SSRN Page

Danielle Citron

Website
SSRN Page

Lawrence Cunningham

Website
SSRN Page

Sarah Waldeck

Website
SSRN Page

Jaya Ramji-Nogales

Website
SSRN Page

Solangel Maldonado

Website
SSRN Page

Gerard Magliocca

Website
SSRN Page


Guests

Rachel Godsil
Alex Kreit
Anita Krishnakumar
Matthew Sag
Michael Zimmer






Previous Guests

Michael Abramowicz
Michelle Adams
Robert Ahdieh
Michelle Anderson
Laura Appleman
Ann Bartow
Francesca Bignami
Jeremy Blumenthal
Kathleen Boozang
Bruce Boyden
Donald Braman
Al Brophy
Neil H. Buchanan
Bill Burke-White
Scott Burris
Paul Butler
Naomi Cahn
Anupam Chander
Miriam Cherry
Jack Chin
Jennifer Collins
Allison Danner
Brannon Denning
Deven Desai
Mike Dimino
Mark Edwards
David Fagundes
Christine Haight Farley
Kim Ferzan
Dan Filler
Michael Froomkin
Amanda Frost
Timothy Glynn
Rachel Godsil
Eric Goldman
David Gray
Craig Green
Tristin Green
Jeffrey Harrison
Erica Hashimoto
Carissa Hessick
Laura Heymann
Robert Hillman
Christine Hurt
Darian Ibrahim
John Ip
Kevin Johnson
Dan Kahan
Brian Kalt
Sam Kamin
Michael Kang
Chimène Keitner
Orin Kerr
Nancy Kim
Heidi Kitrosser
Adam Kolber
Russell Korobkin
Anita S. Krishnakumar
Susan Kuo
Greg Lastowka
Sarah Lawsky
Erik Lillquist
Jeff Lipshaw
Jonathan Lipson
Jacqueline Lipton
Joseph Liu
Michael Madison
Solangel Maldonado
Jason Mazzone
Linda McClain
William McGeveran
Salil Mehra
Carrie Menkel-Meadow
Max Minzner
Scott Moss
Eric Muller
Jaya Ramji-Nogales
Helen Norton
Elizabeth Nowicki
Paul Ohm
Michael O'Shea
David Opderback
Kristen Osenga
Rafael Pardo
Marcy Peek
Eduardo Peñalver
Robert Percival
David Post
Shruti Rana
Geoffrey Rapp
Neil Richards
Lori Ringhand
Alice Ristroph
Susan Scafidi
Paul Secunda
Jonathan Siegel
Jessica Silbey
Peter Smith
Charles Sullivan
Rick Swedloff
Steph Tai
Andrew Taslitz
Robert Tsai
Jenia Turner
Steve Vladeck
Sarah Waldeck
Melissa Waters
Alfred Yen
David Zaring
Timothy Zick
Spencer Weber Waller
Howard Wasserman
Frank Wu
Corey Yung
Jonathan Zittrain

Blogroll

Above the Law
ACS Blog
Althouse
Balkinization
Becker-Posner Blog
BlackProf
BoingBoing
Chicago Law Faculty Blog
Conglomerate
CrimLaw
Crime & Federalism
CrimProf Blog
Crooked Timber
Discourse.net
Dorf on Law
Election Law
Emergent Chaos
The Faculty Lounge
Feminist Law Profs
43(B)log
Freakonomics Blog
Freedom to Tinker
Google Blogoscoped
How Appealing
Ideoblog
Info/Law
Instapundit.com
Juris Novus
Jurisdynamics
Law and Humanities Blog
Law and Letters
Law Librarian Blog
Legal Profession Blog
Legal Theory Blog
Legal Times Blog
Leiter Reports
Brian Leiter's Law School Reports
Lessig Blog
Madisonian Theory
Media Law Blog
Mirror of Justice
The Moderate Voice
National Security Advisors
Opinio Juris
Point of Law
PrawfsBlawg
ProfessorBainbridge.com
Property Prof Blog
Red Tape Chronicles
The Right Coast
Schneier on Security
SCOTUSBlog
Security Dilemmas
Sentencing Law and Policy
Simple Justice
Sivacracy.net
The Situationist
Susan Crawford
TalkLeft
Talking Points Memo
TaxProf Blog
Tech & Marketing Law
Truth on the Market
Volokh Conspiracy
WorkPlace Prof Blog
WSJ Law Blog
Wonkette
The Yin Blog


© Concurring Opinions

Powered by WordPress