Comments on: Of Foxes, Hedgehogs, and Splitting Babies

By: Fraud Guy

Fraud Guy — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 22:59:45 +0000

William,

The historical allegory makes me feel, however, that either the legal use of the phrase should include more ominous overtones, or it would better be used in the political sphere. Obviously, the baby ended up split anyway, as the political unity dissolved under the next King.

By: eric

eric — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:46:54 +0000

I too never heard “go pound sand” until I started practicing law. I originally imagined it referred to a child having a temper tantrum in a sandbox. It was only later that I heard the fuller R-rated version that William hints of, specifying where the sand should be pounded into. I’ve also heard the variant “go pound salt”, but only in California.

By: William McGeveran

William McGeveran — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 17:33:33 +0000

A quick Google searchturns up a number of different plausible theories about the origin of "pound sand," several of which are a bit too vulgar for this family-oriented weblog.

By: Miriam Cherry

Miriam Cherry — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:02:55 +0000

Oooh. Just the idea of a dictionary of cliches has me on the edge of my seat!

By: Brian

Brian — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 06:26:50 +0000

Link to Amazon for Dictionary of Cliches:

http://www.amazon.com/Dictionary-Cliches-James-Rogers/dp/0345338146

By: Brian

Brian — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 06:21:11 +0000

I always laugh when I hear “pound sand” (“They told me to go pound sand.”) I’d never heard it before I became a lawyer. Lazily, I ask, Does anyone know its origin, and is it being used properly? Or will you all tell me to go pound sand and do my own research? (So I guess I am not officially nominating “pound sand.” But someone else might.)

PS I recently saw a dictionary of cliches and plan to buy it – a necessary guide for lawyers.

By: William McGeveran

William McGeveran — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:23:23 +0000

Fraud Guy: You do recall correctly, though that exegesis is somewhat deeper than most readers need to go. For more, see, e.g., here.

By: Fraud Guy

Fraud Guy — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 20:43:58 +0000

IIRC, the tale of the baby is actually a metaphor for Solomon’s accession to the throne. There were many supporters of a rival claimant, but Solomon said that such claims for the true mother(for the “true” king) should allow the baby (Israel) to remain whole rather than to split the baby (kingdom) to contest the false mother’s (Solomon’s) claims.

By: William McGeveran

William McGeveran — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 17:28:52 +0000

I should have said in the post that I myself have misused fox and hedgehog, but will now reform thanks to Solum’s intervention.

Eric, you’re right that sometimes “split the baby” is used semi-properly to mean an unwise compromise — the kind a great judge like King Solomon would avoid. Those references are OK with me. But I think those are swamped by the ones like the two I linked (and Google turned up many more) that are just describing a “split the difference” compromise.

By: eric

eric — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:13:30 +0000

When I was practicing labor law (on the union side), I usually heard the term “split the baby” used as a criticism of an arbitrator’s decision that tried to placate both parties without truly resolving the issue. In that sense, the phrase seemed at least somewhat true to the original — i.e. splitting the baby is an abomination and not a truly wise or just compromise. I don’t recall ever hearing it used in an approbative sense, but perhaps other lawyers do use it that way.

By: Miriam Cherry

Miriam Cherry — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:25:14 +0000

Right on with this post!

The first few times I heard it I just thought to myself, I think they mean “split the difference”… then thought, sigh, it’s probably just what happens when cliches go bad…

but didn’t want to be the one, to ah, er, point out that the emperor wasn’t wearing any clothes…