Comments on: Expensive Tastes and Bitrates

By: Frank

Frank — Tue, 05 Jun 2007 14:20:59 +0000

Mike–yes, I probably should focus on the positive. I heard once that it takes five positive interactions to make up for one negative one, so perhaps my Amtrak ratio is 3 or 4 to 1. I’d probably only complain more if I flew or drove.

Matt–I like your distinction between “a) items that are more expensive and can only be appreciated by a small groups with “refined” tastes, or (b) items that are more expensive and everyone can appreciate.” It’s likely that the former need to be cultivated, whereas the latter just happen.

I’m with Mill–there are good reasons (entirely aside from distributive concerns) to cultivate certain forms of culture. (See, e.g.,

http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2006/05/is_bach_better_.html). I think Dworkin tries to make a “neutralist liberal” case for state support for the “fine arts,” but I don’t know if that can be done.

So I can see the tension you’re suggesting–Mill’s “higher pleasures” are expensive tastes that have to be cultivated. My only response is that these are areas where cross-subsidization may be the strongest. People sitting in the front row at the opera subsidize the standees; high rollers at museum benefits help pay for art for all. Here’s an interesting quote from MOMA:

“Despite the museum’s much-ballyhooed $20 entrance fee, ‘we lose money on admissions,’ Gara says. ‘It costs about $50 per person who walks in.’ The $20 ticket price doesn’t cover security and utilities, and only 50 percent of visitors pay the full price anyway.”

from

http://nymag.com/news/features/2007/profit/32904/

By: Mike O'Shea

Mike O'Shea — Tue, 05 Jun 2007 01:28:19 +0000

That’s a shame, Frank. I retain a sentimental fondness for Amtrak as a child of the drive-everywhere Midwest. When I went East for college, I thought it was so cool and cosmopolitan to take the train from Boston to Providence to visit a friend at Brown. No car!

It wasn’t fast, but as an undergrad I didn’t have anything pressing to do anyway.

Amtrak retains two advantages over air travel. One, you’re at ground level, not in the dim, poorly oxygenated pressure tube of a modern airliner. Gah. Two, unless things have changed a lot in the last few years, the seat dimensions are more humane than a coach airline seat.

I loathe air travel. I’ll drive if it’s under 500 miles.

By: Matt Bodie

Matt Bodie — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 22:59:55 +0000

Frank, I’m a little confused about what you mean by “expensive” tastes. There seem to be two possibilities: (a) items that are more expensive and can only be appreciated by a small groups with “refined” tastes, or (b) items that are more expensive and everyone can appreciate. The audio quality example seems to be (a), but first class flying is (b). Not everyone would notice the difference in audio quality, but everyone would prefer flying first class over coach, no? What do you think about J.S. Mill’s point that certain types of entertainment should have more value, even if they do not offer more base utility, because they are more refined forms of pleasure? (Shakespeare vs. E! True Hollywood Stories, for example.)

By: Frank

Frank — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:45:02 +0000

I could definitely imagine that, Laura. My own experience this weekend involved the train breaking down, everyone having to get off at South Attleboro station, lug their stuff up three flights of wet/slippery iron stairs and then over to the other side of the tracks, and get on an overcrowded train.

And I saw none of the crew help any of the elderly people with their baggage. One woman appeared to throw out her shoulder. They just bellowed endless “apologies for the inconvenience” during the interminable ride to Newark.

By: Laura

Laura — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:38:53 +0000

Frank,

Re: Amtrak–my husband was flying from Boston to NY a few years ago, and ran into none other than Michael Dukakis, then head of Amtrak. My husband couldn’t resist asking him why he was flying when he could have taken the train. Dukakis’s sheepish reply: “Well, I had to be in NY for a meeting at the last minute, so I couldn’t rely on the train. But we are trying to fix these problems.” I guess nothing’s changed…

By: Frank

Frank — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:38:27 +0000

I agree, I think first class used to be a cash cow for airlines, but now more and more businesses are refusing to pay for it. I think a sad consequence of that may be higher prices for the rest of the passengers (ceteris paribus, of course).

By: Bruce Boyden

Bruce Boyden — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:35:03 +0000

How come almost everyone flies coach on airplanes then? Everyone who’s paying their own way, that is.