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	<title>Comments on: Fantasy’s Apocalyptic Turn</title>
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	<description>The Law, the Universe, and Everything</description>
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		<title>By: TJ Erickson</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2007/05/fantasys_apocal_1.html/comment-page-1#comment-53854</link>
		<dc:creator>TJ Erickson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 11:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2007/05/fantasy%e2%80%99s-apocalyptic-turn.html#comment-53854</guid>
		<description>For the guy who is looking for &quot;a good piece of fantasy writing that didn&#039;t make me feel like pond scum after reading&quot; I recommend Lois McMaster Bujold&#039;s The Curse of Chalion and Paladin of Souls.  The language and writing is arresting, and she leaves you feeling better about people than a lot of what is on the shelves these days.  I read a lot, both in genre and out, and I have created a list of very few writers that I think are truly at the top of the game.

Charles de Lint and Patricia McKillip are both amazing stylists, Guy Gavriel Kay might be the best fantasist of the 90&#039;s(I am aware that his Fionavar novels read like Tok-clones, but he&#039;d just finished the work he did on the Silmarilion, so I give him a pass.  His work deserves it.) , and Bujold as mentioned above is truly superb.  Each has flaws of course, but they are all truly gifted writers as well.

Among the grittier versions of the genre, I like &quot;hard fantasy&quot; as a description, I have recently read, and very much enjoyed James Clemen&#039;s Shadowfall.

I think that I am cautiously optimistic about the future of the genre right now, as there are some amazing younger writers out there.  I recently read a first novel by a guy named Jay Lake, called Mainspring, that was inventive, and fascinating, and far superior to much that has been written in the last 30 years.  The late 80&#039;s and early 90&#039;s will I think in the long run, be viewed as the low water points for fantasy.  Right now if you want brainless tok-clones, they are out there, but there is also a lot of intelligent and insightful writing written in genre.  -TJ

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the guy who is looking for &#8220;a good piece of fantasy writing that didn&#8217;t make me feel like pond scum after reading&#8221; I recommend Lois McMaster Bujold&#8217;s The Curse of Chalion and Paladin of Souls.  The language and writing is arresting, and she leaves you feeling better about people than a lot of what is on the shelves these days.  I read a lot, both in genre and out, and I have created a list of very few writers that I think are truly at the top of the game.</p>
<p>Charles de Lint and Patricia McKillip are both amazing stylists, Guy Gavriel Kay might be the best fantasist of the 90&#8217;s(I am aware that his Fionavar novels read like Tok-clones, but he&#8217;d just finished the work he did on the Silmarilion, so I give him a pass.  His work deserves it.) , and Bujold as mentioned above is truly superb.  Each has flaws of course, but they are all truly gifted writers as well.</p>
<p>Among the grittier versions of the genre, I like &#8220;hard fantasy&#8221; as a description, I have recently read, and very much enjoyed James Clemen&#8217;s Shadowfall.</p>
<p>I think that I am cautiously optimistic about the future of the genre right now, as there are some amazing younger writers out there.  I recently read a first novel by a guy named Jay Lake, called Mainspring, that was inventive, and fascinating, and far superior to much that has been written in the last 30 years.  The late 80&#8217;s and early 90&#8217;s will I think in the long run, be viewed as the low water points for fantasy.  Right now if you want brainless tok-clones, they are out there, but there is also a lot of intelligent and insightful writing written in genre.  -TJ</p>
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		<title>By: Arachne Jericho</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2007/05/fantasys_apocal_1.html/comment-page-1#comment-53853</link>
		<dc:creator>Arachne Jericho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 01:05:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2007/05/fantasy%e2%80%99s-apocalyptic-turn.html#comment-53853</guid>
		<description>Very nice article!

You may want to try &quot;The Knight&quot; part of the Wizard Knight (two books).  It&#039;s a very approachable Wolfe.

Also, try his short stories--they&#039;re all very good.  It&#039;s when he approaches novel-length that the singularity usually starts to fold--for good, if you like that kind of stuff, or ill, if you don&#039;t.

I like Gene Wolfe, but have a difficult time chewing through his novels.  But his short stories--and &lt;i&gt;The Knight&lt;/i&gt;--I devour happily.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very nice article!</p>
<p>You may want to try &#8220;The Knight&#8221; part of the Wizard Knight (two books).  It&#8217;s a very approachable Wolfe.</p>
<p>Also, try his short stories&#8211;they&#8217;re all very good.  It&#8217;s when he approaches novel-length that the singularity usually starts to fold&#8211;for good, if you like that kind of stuff, or ill, if you don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>I like Gene Wolfe, but have a difficult time chewing through his novels.  But his short stories&#8211;and <i>The Knight</i>&#8211;I devour happily.</p>
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		<title>By: dave hoffman</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2007/05/fantasys_apocal_1.html/comment-page-1#comment-53852</link>
		<dc:creator>dave hoffman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 17:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;ve tried Wolfe many times (although I haven&#039;t tried the Wizard).  I just can&#039;t get past the first 100 pages in any of his books.  I recognize there is meat there, and that he is doing complicated and interesting things with the narration, but it (for me) is just a bit fit with the subject matter.  For what it is worth, I wasn&#039;t aware of his politics, whatever they may be.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve tried Wolfe many times (although I haven&#8217;t tried the Wizard).  I just can&#8217;t get past the first 100 pages in any of his books.  I recognize there is meat there, and that he is doing complicated and interesting things with the narration, but it (for me) is just a bit fit with the subject matter.  For what it is worth, I wasn&#8217;t aware of his politics, whatever they may be.</p>
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		<title>By: BDG</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2007/05/fantasys_apocal_1.html/comment-page-1#comment-53851</link>
		<dc:creator>BDG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 17:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2007/05/fantasy%e2%80%99s-apocalyptic-turn.html#comment-53851</guid>
		<description>Comparing Wolfe to Gaddis is a cheap shot.  I think you should try again, if you gave up quickly...he&#039;ll offer you all the dense character development and moral complexity you want, without having to resort to the kinds of over-the-top shock of some others you mention (although _The Wizard_ gets pretty bleak).

A fairer criticism is that his politics are pretty objectionable, from the perspective of the left-of-center law professor.  But he generally doesn&#039;t hit you over the head with them.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comparing Wolfe to Gaddis is a cheap shot.  I think you should try again, if you gave up quickly&#8230;he&#8217;ll offer you all the dense character development and moral complexity you want, without having to resort to the kinds of over-the-top shock of some others you mention (although _The Wizard_ gets pretty bleak).</p>
<p>A fairer criticism is that his politics are pretty objectionable, from the perspective of the left-of-center law professor.  But he generally doesn&#8217;t hit you over the head with them.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Hoffman</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2007/05/fantasys_apocal_1.html/comment-page-1#comment-53850</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Hoffman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 07:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>A contrary example.  It&#039;s a very bad book, in a pretty terrible series, but for some reason I read it tonight: Exile&#039;s Honor, by Lackey.  There is a tort lawsuit resolved by a factfinder using a &quot;truth spell.&quot;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A contrary example.  It&#8217;s a very bad book, in a pretty terrible series, but for some reason I read it tonight: Exile&#8217;s Honor, by Lackey.  There is a tort lawsuit resolved by a factfinder using a &#8220;truth spell.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2007/05/fantasys_apocal_1.html/comment-page-1#comment-53849</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 20:31:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.solove.org/archives/2007/05/fantasy%e2%80%99s-apocalyptic-turn.html#comment-53849</guid>
		<description>Children of Hurin is the first fantasy book I&#039;ve bought in a while. I am deep into A Song of Ice and Fire, which is the only ongoing current fantasy series I can stand and I think that has to do with the fact that it&#039;s not so much fantasy as medieval in tone. I gave up on Robert Jordan halfway through book six. I do have some Gene Wolfe I plan on reading, but right now I&#039;m working through an Honor Harrington novel and I do have plans to get back to Glen Cook&#039;s Black Company stories.

I&#039;ve read a lot of fantasy in my youth, and while I still have a fondness for it, I&#039;m much more choosy about what I read (ie, GRRM), and my tastes have moved toward other genres and non-fiction.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Children of Hurin is the first fantasy book I&#8217;ve bought in a while. I am deep into A Song of Ice and Fire, which is the only ongoing current fantasy series I can stand and I think that has to do with the fact that it&#8217;s not so much fantasy as medieval in tone. I gave up on Robert Jordan halfway through book six. I do have some Gene Wolfe I plan on reading, but right now I&#8217;m working through an Honor Harrington novel and I do have plans to get back to Glen Cook&#8217;s Black Company stories.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve read a lot of fantasy in my youth, and while I still have a fondness for it, I&#8217;m much more choosy about what I read (ie, GRRM), and my tastes have moved toward other genres and non-fiction.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth R.</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2007/05/fantasys_apocal_1.html/comment-page-1#comment-53848</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 15:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;ll cop to reading a lot of the books you linked to while I was in high school (and picking a few of them up again in later years out of nostalgia). I was an avid fantasy reader. But yeah, Weis/Hickman, Eddings, et al just haven&#039;t stood the test of time.

I don&#039;t really do fantasy anymore. I tried to pick up Song of Ice and Fire a couple months ago. But you&#039;re right: the sex and brutality are definitely there. After a while, I just didn&#039;t feel like wallowing in human filth over a genre I suddenly realized I didn&#039;t care about anymore. I didn&#039;t even get through the first book.

I&#039;ve been going for historical non-fiction mostly. But I still wish I could find a good piece of fantasy writing that didn&#039;t make me feel like pond scum after reading it. You&#039;re summary of current literary trends is not exactly encouraging.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll cop to reading a lot of the books you linked to while I was in high school (and picking a few of them up again in later years out of nostalgia). I was an avid fantasy reader. But yeah, Weis/Hickman, Eddings, et al just haven&#8217;t stood the test of time.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t really do fantasy anymore. I tried to pick up Song of Ice and Fire a couple months ago. But you&#8217;re right: the sex and brutality are definitely there. After a while, I just didn&#8217;t feel like wallowing in human filth over a genre I suddenly realized I didn&#8217;t care about anymore. I didn&#8217;t even get through the first book.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been going for historical non-fiction mostly. But I still wish I could find a good piece of fantasy writing that didn&#8217;t make me feel like pond scum after reading it. You&#8217;re summary of current literary trends is not exactly encouraging.</p>
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		<title>By: G</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2007/05/fantasys_apocal_1.html/comment-page-1#comment-53847</link>
		<dc:creator>G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 06:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>After reading GRRM, I just can&#039;t go back to anything else. I&#039;ve delayed reading the Erickson novels because they are so large in scope and would probably require much of my time and focus to enjoy properly. I&#039;ve also heard Glen Cook&#039;s The Black Company is very good, and will be reading that in the future as well (among the other authors you&#039;ve mentioned).

It&#039;s good to know that fantasy is moving in the &quot;right&quot; direction and that there are others with similar tastes.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After reading GRRM, I just can&#8217;t go back to anything else. I&#8217;ve delayed reading the Erickson novels because they are so large in scope and would probably require much of my time and focus to enjoy properly. I&#8217;ve also heard Glen Cook&#8217;s The Black Company is very good, and will be reading that in the future as well (among the other authors you&#8217;ve mentioned).</p>
<p>It&#8217;s good to know that fantasy is moving in the &#8220;right&#8221; direction and that there are others with similar tastes.</p>
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		<title>By: Amber</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2007/05/fantasys_apocal_1.html/comment-page-1#comment-53846</link>
		<dc:creator>Amber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 19:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for this post. I get a lot of flack from my boyfriend (also a lawyer) about reading &quot;books with dragons on the cover,&quot; but as you point out many of the recent fantasy series are more than just escapism. Thanks for the comprehensive recs; I&#039;m a big China Mieville fan, who is explicitly the anti-Tolkien.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this post. I get a lot of flack from my boyfriend (also a lawyer) about reading &#8220;books with dragons on the cover,&#8221; but as you point out many of the recent fantasy series are more than just escapism. Thanks for the comprehensive recs; I&#8217;m a big China Mieville fan, who is explicitly the anti-Tolkien.</p>
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		<title>By: Belle Lettre</title>
		<link>http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2007/05/fantasys_apocal_1.html/comment-page-1#comment-53845</link>
		<dc:creator>Belle Lettre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 12:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You are such a nerd.  But then again, so am I.

I don&#039;t read much epic fantasy to be honest. I don&#039;t even read sci fi, which I prefer to watch on TV with special effects (Star Trek TNG, Firefly, Battlestar Galactica).  But lots of my English grad student buddies, people I generally respect usually high falutin&#039; literary tastes love science fiction fantasy as beach reads.  I&#039;m intending to take up their suggestions this summer if I make it to the beach in between conferences.

The general consensus is that you can&#039;t go wrong with the Victorianist trained sci fi author (and lit professor at the University of London) Adam Roberts:   http://adamroberts.com .  Start with Salt, then On, then Stone.

Or Octavia Butler, who unfortunately died last year.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octavia_Butler

Kindred is a sci fi exploration of slavery, supposed to be very good, as are the Parable of the Sower series.

They&#039;re both highly rated as readable, intelligent, and well-written sci fi fantasy.

Anyway, that&#039;s what I&#039;m reading this summer.  Although Jim Chen gave me some historical fantasy for Christmas, &quot;Freedom and Necessity&quot; by Steven Brust and Emma Bull, and I&#039;ve still yet to read that.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are such a nerd.  But then again, so am I.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t read much epic fantasy to be honest. I don&#8217;t even read sci fi, which I prefer to watch on TV with special effects (Star Trek TNG, Firefly, Battlestar Galactica).  But lots of my English grad student buddies, people I generally respect usually high falutin&#8217; literary tastes love science fiction fantasy as beach reads.  I&#8217;m intending to take up their suggestions this summer if I make it to the beach in between conferences.</p>
<p>The general consensus is that you can&#8217;t go wrong with the Victorianist trained sci fi author (and lit professor at the University of London) Adam Roberts:   <a href="http://adamroberts.com" rel="nofollow">http://adamroberts.com</a> .  Start with Salt, then On, then Stone.</p>
<p>Or Octavia Butler, who unfortunately died last year.  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octavia_Butler" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octavia_Butler</a></p>
<p>Kindred is a sci fi exploration of slavery, supposed to be very good, as are the Parable of the Sower series.</p>
<p>They&#8217;re both highly rated as readable, intelligent, and well-written sci fi fantasy.</p>
<p>Anyway, that&#8217;s what I&#8217;m reading this summer.  Although Jim Chen gave me some historical fantasy for Christmas, &#8220;Freedom and Necessity&#8221; by Steven Brust and Emma Bull, and I&#8217;ve still yet to read that.</p>
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