Comments on: Vanity Fair on Hamdan et al. http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2007/02/vanity_fair_on.html The Law, the Universe, and Everything Thu, 18 Mar 2010 12:07:49 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Matt http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2007/02/vanity_fair_on.html/comment-page-1#comment-55264 Matt Sat, 17 Feb 2007 02:57:07 +0000 http://www.solove.org/archives/2007/02/vanity-fair-on-hamdan-et-al.html#comment-55264 Frank- I think your position is, Frankly, childish. I'm sorry to say that but it's true. But, please do answer this. How did torturing (including beating to death) people who had nothing to do with September 11th, were not Al Qaeda members, not terrorists, etc. make the US safer? How could it? And is not doing that monsterous? Surely if such things were done to your friends or family you'd not care about the good intentions of those doing it. If moral demands are not universal what good are they? Frank- I think your position is, Frankly, childish. I’m sorry to say that but it’s true. But, please do answer this. How did torturing (including beating to death) people who had nothing to do with September 11th, were not Al Qaeda members, not terrorists, etc. make the US safer? How could it? And is not doing that monsterous? Surely if such things were done to your friends or family you’d not care about the good intentions of those doing it. If moral demands are not universal what good are they?

]]> By: Frank http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2007/02/vanity_fair_on.html/comment-page-1#comment-55263 Frank Fri, 16 Feb 2007 23:38:03 +0000 http://www.solove.org/archives/2007/02/vanity-fair-on-hamdan-et-al.html#comment-55263 Matt - I respect your opinion but I have to disagree. I do not consider the events of Sept. 11 as "minor". Further, your post leads me to the conclusion that you believe the alleged mistreatment of suspected terrorists in the Middle East is, in some quantitative way, worse than the acts of Sept 11. How you justify this in your head is beyond me, unless you are a member or sympathizer of al-Qaeda? Killing thousands of innocent people is worse than subjecting someone to a freezing cell. And it is essential to realize that the freezing cell is used, not for fun, but as a means to protecting the rest of the world. Finally, the crucial question is not the estimated life span of Sept. 11 victims v. the time period of "harm" done to American's rep due to people like Yoo. It is, what does the American government need to do in order to protect American lives (as well as the rest of the world) from true evil. Evil that will kill thousands of innocent civilians unless it is destroyed. Matt – I respect your opinion but I have to disagree.

I do not consider the events of Sept. 11 as “minor”. Further, your post leads me to the conclusion that you believe the alleged mistreatment of suspected terrorists in the Middle East is, in some quantitative way, worse than the acts of Sept 11. How you justify this in your head is beyond me, unless you are a member or sympathizer of al-Qaeda? Killing thousands of innocent people is worse than subjecting someone to a freezing cell. And it is essential to realize that the freezing cell is used, not for fun, but as a means to protecting the rest of the world.

Finally, the crucial question is not the estimated life span of Sept. 11 victims v. the time period of “harm” done to American’s rep due to people like Yoo. It is, what does the American government need to do in order to protect American lives (as well as the rest of the world) from true evil. Evil that will kill thousands of innocent civilians unless it is destroyed.

]]> By: Adam http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2007/02/vanity_fair_on.html/comment-page-1#comment-55262 Adam Fri, 16 Feb 2007 20:25:27 +0000 http://www.solove.org/archives/2007/02/vanity-fair-on-hamdan-et-al.html#comment-55262 It's an interesting article, but by my first read the author seems to horribly misunderstand Rasul and Congress's reaction thereto. It's not clear to me that the author didn't realize that Rasul wasn't a decision of constitutional law -- it was a mere statutory reading. It’s an interesting article, but by my first read the author seems to horribly misunderstand Rasul and Congress’s reaction thereto. It’s not clear to me that the author didn’t realize that Rasul wasn’t a decision of constitutional law — it was a mere statutory reading.

]]> By: Matt http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2007/02/vanity_fair_on.html/comment-page-1#comment-55261 Matt Fri, 16 Feb 2007 19:39:44 +0000 http://www.solove.org/archives/2007/02/vanity-fair-on-hamdan-et-al.html#comment-55261 Yes, those things _were_ terrifying, Frank. But since a huge number of the people we picked up in Afghanistan and then tortured, with the help of people like Yoo, had nothing at all to do with it, since we've decided that the rule of law doesn't apply anymore, since we've gone crazy over events that are minor compared to what other civilizations have survied, I'd consider this a pretty terrifying development. The damage done by people like Yoo will still be hurting our nation long after all those who died on September 11th would have died anyway. Yes, those things _were_ terrifying, Frank. But since a huge number of the people we picked up in Afghanistan and then tortured, with the help of people like Yoo, had nothing at all to do with it, since we’ve decided that the rule of law doesn’t apply anymore, since we’ve gone crazy over events that are minor compared to what other civilizations have survied, I’d consider this a pretty terrifying development. The damage done by people like Yoo will still be hurting our nation long after all those who died on September 11th would have died anyway.

]]> By: Frank http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2007/02/vanity_fair_on.html/comment-page-1#comment-55260 Frank Fri, 16 Feb 2007 17:09:00 +0000 http://www.solove.org/archives/2007/02/vanity-fair-on-hamdan-et-al.html#comment-55260 "It would be pathetic if his actions hadn't had such terrifying results." Matt, how quickly we forget what really constitutes "terrifying". Terrifying is seeing a large commercial jet slamming into the WTC. Terrifying is seeing innocent civilians jump to their death from a burning building. Terrifying is having our defense hq engulfed in flames. Terrifying is not "freezing cells" for known terrorists nor is it being in a stress position for two days. Pain is losing losing a loved one on Flight 93. For a detailed list of the successful prevention of terrorist attacks due to interrogations conducted at American prisons operated in the Middle East see: http://www.dni.gov/announcements/content/TheHighValueDetaineeProgram.pdf Matt - "terrifying results" would be not interrogating these prisoners and having al-Qaeda kill thousands of more innocent civilians. “It would be pathetic if his actions hadn’t had such terrifying results.”

Matt, how quickly we forget what really constitutes “terrifying”. Terrifying is seeing a large commercial jet slamming into the WTC. Terrifying is seeing innocent civilians jump to their death from a burning building. Terrifying is having our defense hq engulfed in flames. Terrifying is not “freezing cells” for known terrorists nor is it being in a stress position for two days. Pain is losing losing a loved one on Flight 93.

For a detailed list of the successful prevention of terrorist attacks due to interrogations conducted at American prisons operated in the Middle East see: http://www.dni.gov/announcements/content/TheHighValueDetaineeProgram.pdf

Matt – “terrifying results” would be not interrogating these prisoners and having al-Qaeda kill thousands of more innocent civilians.

]]> By: Matt http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2007/02/vanity_fair_on.html/comment-page-1#comment-55259 Matt Fri, 16 Feb 2007 03:24:39 +0000 http://www.solove.org/archives/2007/02/vanity-fair-on-hamdan-et-al.html#comment-55259 I must say I really bleed for poor John Yoo. He feels like he was "hung out to dry". I mean, he wasn't literally hung out to dry, or hung on a wall and beaten to death like some of our prisoners in Afghanistan. And he's feeling some pain. Not pain like those kept in a freezing cell for days or in a stress position for two days, but pain nonetheless. And I'm sure he's feeling some emotional stress. Not the sort that someone kept in sensory deprivation for two years feels, that's true, but I'm sure he's a sensitive guy so it's probably worse for him. Really, what a sorry case he is. It would be pathetic if his actions hadn't had such terrifying results. I must say I really bleed for poor John Yoo. He feels like he was “hung out to dry”. I mean, he wasn’t literally hung out to dry, or hung on a wall and beaten to death like some of our prisoners in Afghanistan. And he’s feeling some pain. Not pain like those kept in a freezing cell for days or in a stress position for two days, but pain nonetheless. And I’m sure he’s feeling some emotional stress. Not the sort that someone kept in sensory deprivation for two years feels, that’s true, but I’m sure he’s a sensitive guy so it’s probably worse for him. Really, what a sorry case he is. It would be pathetic if his actions hadn’t had such terrifying results.

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