Home | About | RSS Feed | Contact and Publicity Guidelines | Comment Policy the Law, the Universe, and Everything 

advertise-here4


Slip Opinions


Groundhog Day. (fp)

Banned in Tucson. (kw)

The Best and Worst of 2011 in Race and Law (kw)

Tortured to death for trespassing. (fp)

Drones of contention. (fp)

DOJ still coddling banks. (fp)

Creative destruction? Thank banks. (fp)

Blog about a new book, on how to talk to little girls--stressing smarts not cutes.   LAC

Macey on the heroic Rakoff. (fp)

Captured NY Fed. (fp)


solicitors

Our Podcast

Subscribe to Law Talk

law-rev-contents2.jpg


  • Posts by Author

  • Categories

  • Archives


  • Recent Comments


    • Alice on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • Rachel Karash on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • MBL on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • MBL on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • feathered_head on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • Concernicus on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • Ian on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • Peterk on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • Robert on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • Three Oranges on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • Paul Robichaux on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • JR on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • Jan on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • Mark on Physical Punishment and Parental Rights

    • Shag from Brookline on Omelets and Eggs
  •  

    Site Meter

    About the Blog

    Concurring Opinions is a multiple authored, general interest legal blog.

    (Image: Wikicommons)

Hiding Behind The Fourth Amendment

posted by Dan Filler

As I mentioned in an earlier post, a Birmingham suburb is considering an ordinance that criminalizes possessing a house in which an “open house party” occurs. An open house party occurs whenever two or more underage people consume alcohol in the home. As a consequence, any time parents allow their two kids to have wine at dinner they’re hosting an illegal house party. Mountain Brook’s police chief suggests that this won’t be a problem because the police can’t enter the house without some suspicion of misconduct and “no one really calls and says, `my mom lets my brother drink at dinner.’”

I’m not sure I like seeing the Fourth Amendment used in this fashion. It seems to me that a criminal law should be narrowly drawn to address the problem at hand. If we really think that it should be a crime for two or more underage kids to drink at home, regardless of the circumstances, we shouldn’t find excuses for why the law won’t be enforced at inopportune times. We should exclude those situations. And if we don’t exclude them, it seems to me that we want to find ways to stop those evil-doing parents who toast the new year with their underage issue.

While this law is minor, it’s relatively easy to see how hiding behind the Fourth Amendment becomes a way to encourage unnecessary lawmaking: the consequences of overbroad new laws are explained away as unlikely and irrelevant to selected citizens. At the same time, these provisions can be used, selectively, to generate a justification for entering homes that might otherwise be of interest to police. In my view, the only acts that should be crimes are those that a family in Mountain Brook – or Scarsdale or Winnetka or anywhere else – would be willing to forego in the privacy of their home. If the regulation seems to intrude too much on personal or family matters, it’s probably a bad law.


 July 6, 2006 at 1:16 pm   Posted in: Criminal Procedure   Print This Post Print This Post

Responses (4)

  1. Ted McClure - July 6, 2006 at 3:53 pm

    I suggest that such semi-enforceable laws teach disrespect for the rule of law generally. And, as the Fourth Amendment is subject to rather flexible interpretation at the local level (as a practical matter), this creeps towards the arbitrary and capricious.

    Not that I mind the goal of the ordinance, being a former resident of Darien, Connecticut (obscure historical/cultural reference from the mid-1960s).

  2. Kevin H. Feeley - July 6, 2006 at 5:06 pm

    Criminalize posessing a house? What will they think of next?

    It seems to me that anytime a government begins creating “morality laws”, such as this (OMG, think of the CHILDREN!!!!) they become just another tool used for abuse of powers by governmental agencies, especially the law enforcement branches thereof. Why continually create laws that you know will be broken by, otherwise, law-abiding citizens? To generate revenue and to further reduce personal freedom. It also makes for nice press when election time rolls around again (“Just look what Councilmember Smith did for our children and families.”/”Making our community safer by removing the need for responsible parenting.”, etc, etc).

    Making a law doesn’t make an activity stop. The only good part I can see here is that it is at a municipal level, therefore will be a matter of direct law, enabling citizens who disagree with the final outcome to move to a community that provides a more condusive environment for the personal behavioral choices they make. This is, unfortunately, not the case in many such unenforcable laws in this country.

    Oh, when will this particular community begin shutting down churches for providing wine to minors?

  3. Dave - July 6, 2006 at 11:20 pm

    I think you’ve identified only a semantic problem. I don’t understand why the following two laws are any different:

    1) The law here, which everyone in the community knows is intended to go after parties, and which everyone in the community knows will not be interpreted in an overbroad manner because of the realities of policing, OR

    2) A law that simply spells that common understanding out in writing.

    The law that spells everything out adds nothing so long as everyone in the community really knows what it means, as seems to be the case here. And the law as drafted in (1) may have certain enforcement benefits, in terms of capturing situations that are difficult to codify.

    It seems to me that rule of law values are only disserved when the police actually start enforcing the law against people in a way the community understands to be unacceptable: i.e. against the family letting their children drink wine at dinner. Then that family did not really have fair notice because the understanding of that law in the community was that it was aimed at ensuring enforceability against house party situations. So long as this law is never enforced in the family situation, we’re in the same area we are with all the other ridiculous laws that never get enforced (like wearing a hat on Sunday in some places, etc.).

  4. Dan Filler - July 7, 2006 at 11:06 am

    Dave, I think one problem with your analysis is that there doesn’t seem to be a limiting principle. Why not adopt a law that prohibits anyone from buying Sudafed, then selectively arrest only those people who look – from their appearance – like they’re likely to make meth with it? In this way, we can allow law abiding folks to buy their decongestant, and we can target skanky looking people who a) are about to make meth or b) are the sorts of folks we’d prefer locked up in any case.

    Police need some discretion, but I don’t think that means we should criminalize all conduct and allow the police and DA to arrest and prosecute only those people “everyone in the community” thinks ought to be arrested.

Leave a Reply

Spam protection by WP Captcha-Free


  • « Previous post
  • Next post »

Authors

Daniel J. Solove
Kaimipono Wenger
Dave Hoffman
Frank Pasquale
Deven Desai
Danielle Citron
Lawrence Cunningham
Sarah Waldeck
Jaya Ramji-Nogales
Solangel Maldonado
Gerard Magliocca

Guests

Derek Bambauer
Gabriella Coleman
andré douglas pond cummings
David Gray
Brishen Rogers
Joseph Turow
Elizabeth A. Wilson













Previous Guests

Michael Abramowicz
Michelle Adams
Robert Ahdieh
Marvin Ammori
Michelle Anderson
Laura Appleman
Taunya Lovell Banks
Ann Bartow
Steven Bellovin
Adam Benforado
Gaia Bernstein
Francesca Bignami
Josh Blackman
Joseph Blocher
Jeremy Blumenthal
Kathleen Boozang
Bruce Boyden
Donald Braman
Al Brophy
Neil H. Buchanan
Bill Burke-White
Scott Burris
Paul Butler
Ryan Calo
Naomi Cahn
Anupam Chander
Miriam Cherry
Jack Chin
Glenn Cohen
Jennifer Collins
Caroline Mala Corbin
Thomas Crocker
Allison Danner
Brannon Denning
Deven Desai
Mike Dimino
Mark Edwards
Maxine Eichner
Jessica Erickson
David Fagundes
Lisa Fairfax
Joshua Fairfield
Christine Haight Farley
Kim Ferzan
Dan Filler
Mary Anne Franks
Michael Froomkin
Amanda Frost
Brian Frye
Timothy Glynn
Rachel Godsil
Eric Goldman
Kyle Graham
David Gray
Craig Green
Tristin Green
Jonathan Hafetz
Meredith Harbach
Michelle Harner
Jeffrey Harrison
Hosea Harvey
Erica Hashimoto
Jennifer Hendricks
Carissa Hessick
Laura Heymann
Robert Hillman
Gilbert A. Holmes
Nicole Huberfeld
Christine Hurt
Darian Ibrahim
Sherrilyn Ifill
John Ip
Shavar Jeffries
Kevin Johnson
Kristin Johnson
Jeff Jonas
Courtney Joslin
Dan Kahan
Jeffrey Kahn
Brian Kalt
Sam Kamin
Michael Kang
Chimène Keitner
Alicia Kelly
Orin Kerr
Nancy Kim
Heidi Kitrosser
Adam Kolber
Russell Korobkin
Alex Kreit
Anita S. Krishnakumar
Susan Kuo
Greg Lastowka
Sarah Lawsky
Youngjae Lee
Margaret Lewis
Erik Lillquist
Jeff Lipshaw
Jonathan Lipson
Jacqueline Lipton
Matthew Lister
Joseph Liu
Michael Madison
Kevin Noble Maillard
Solangel Maldonado
Jason Mazzone
Linda McClain
William McGeveran
Salil Mehra
Carrie Menkel-Meadow
Max Minzner
Viva Moffat
Scott Moss
Eric Muller
Jaya Ramji-Nogales
Helen Norton
Elizabeth Nowicki
Paul Ohm
Angela Onwuachi-Willing
Michael O'Shea
David Opderback
Kristen Osenga
Rafael Pardo
Marcy Peek
Eduardo Peñalver
Robert Percival
Michael J. Pitts
Marc Poirier
David Post
Amanda Pustilnik
Shruti Rana
Geoffrey Rapp
Neil Richards
Lori Ringhand
Alice Ristroph
Marc Roark
Sasha Romanosky
Tuan Samahon
Susan Scafidi
David Schraub
Paul Secunda
Jonathan Siegel
Jessica Silbey
Peter Smith
Judd Sneirson
Adam Steinman
Charles Sullivan
Rick Swedloff
Olivier Sylvain
Steph Tai
Andrew Taslitz
Robert Tsai
Jenia Turner
Steve Vladeck
Ari Waldman
Spencer Weber Waller
Howard Wasserman
Melissa Waters
Frank Wu
Alfred Yen
Corey Yung
David Zaring
Timothy Zick
Michael Zimmer
Jonathan Zittrain

Ownership

Concurring Opinions is a
general-interest legal blog
operated by Concurring
Opinions LLC, a Pennsylvania
Limited Liability Corporation.

Blogroll

Above the Law
Access to Justice
ACS Blog
Althouse
Balkinization
Becker-Posner Blog
BlackProf
BoingBoing
Chicago Law Faculty Blog
Conglomerate
CrimLaw
Crime & Federalism
CrimProf Blog
Crooked Timber
Derechoalderecho
Discourse.net
Dorf on Law
Election Law
Emergent Chaos
The Faculty Lounge
Feminist Law Profs
43(B)log
Freakonomics Blog
Freedom to Tinker
Google Blogoscoped
How Appealing
Ideoblog
Info/Law
Instapundit.com
Juris Novus
Jurisdynamics
Just Books
Law and Humanities Blog
Law and Letters
Law Librarian Blog
Legal Profession Blog
Legal Theory Blog
Legal Times Blog
Leiter Reports
Brian Leiter's Law School Reports
Lessig Blog
Madisonian Theory
Media Law Blog
Mirror of Justice
The Moderate Voice
National Security Advisors
Opinio Juris
Point of Law
PrawfsBlawg
ProfessorBainbridge.com
Property Prof Blog
Red Tape Chronicles
The Right Coast
Schneier on Security
SCOTUSBlog
Security Dilemmas
Sentencing Law and Policy
Simple Justice
Sivacracy.net
The Situationist
Susan Crawford
TalkLeft
Talking Points Memo
TaxProf Blog
TeachPrivacy Blog
Tech & Marketing Law
Truth on the Market
Volokh Conspiracy
WorkPlace Prof Blog
WSJ Law Blog
Wonkette
The Yin Blog


© Concurring Opinions

Powered by WordPress